WOMEN PREACHERS

Joseph,

women not being allowed to hold spiritual authority over men in the church is not an implication of inferiority. When you accept this premise you play right into the feminist's hands, who try to say that Christians are still trying to "keep women down".

The reason that the Adam and Eve citation is valid is because it's Bible. There is no indication in the 1 Timothy passage that this is merely Paul's opinion, and not the Lord speaking....as Paul clearly makes that statement in the other passage you are referring to. If it isn't clearly stated by Paul that he feels this is his own opinion and not God's, than we assume that it IS God's opinion.....and HIS opinion trumps all of ours.

Let me also say, this is not about "women subordination." Only another attempt to clarify the proper roles of the genders. I see no problem with us being different. And I don't really think that any of the other ladies around here do either. The angst comes from this being constantly put forth as a discussion issue.

Perhaps, ladies, there is a reason the men feel as if they need to keep talking about. Perhaps we are letting the women's lib movement effect us too much in some areas. How many women do we know who will actually go to their pastor and "inform" him that they think he's wrong on doctrinal issues? This is clearly a case of a woman trying to usurp a spiritual authority over the man of God, and perhaps its creeping into our churches too much and we older ladies need to step in and start teaching these women what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. Maybe we aren't doing a very good job of teaching the new/younger women the proper Biblical way to do these things.
If a man comes along and tries to do this teaching, he is often seen as "lording it over" the women, even though I know many courageous men who make the attempt and do a pretty good job. I think its more effective if it comes from the ladies though.

 

Bob,

Id like to say a few things about your post....Pheobe being a deaconess does not mean she preached. In fact, there were no cases in the Bible when a deacon preached, except for Stephen, and I think its a great sermon.

Prophecying is "forth-telling"....telling the gospel, telling people the truth about God. That's not a gender role, its a Christian role. Its different than being in the position of pastor.

A woman praying in church does not necessarily imply that she is teaching anyone at all, nor that she is even doing this aloud. I think an important role of the women in a church is faithful prayer. Also, women are told exactly who they are supposed to be teaching....they are to have a vital role in the lives of the younger women, teaching them how to care for their husbands and children, and how to be good women of God. We have alot of teaching to do. I don't think we have time to be the pastor, too.

 

Scarlott,
Amen, and amen. The trend towards an increase in women in whatever church office is in most part due to men not being in church and assuming a leadership role. So, one must ask, is it better for a woman to assume the Christian leadership role, or no one since lots of men are absent.

So, if all of you who like to proclaim the Bible about women not being behind the pulpit (which I agree with) have nothing to blame but lazy, unregenerated, spineless men.

 

I chose my words wrong. Sorry. I think men in America have failed to lead their families and churches and there are many churches that would go leaderless if not for women due to the absence of men. I understand your point. Again, sorry.

 

I think we all err when we think in terms of men/women and, especially, men vs. women. What has us all out of whack about it, both men and women, is the evil feminization of Western culture. It's appeal is very great and it aims directly at the core-center of the flesh, our pride. Since there is no choice but to interact with feminized culture I greatly empathize with Christian women today. It is enough of a battle for me as a man.

God has specified roles for men and roles for women, and that is final, all that is necessary is to accept it and obey it, and beyond that it's hardly worth talking about. But in my opinion a mature, godly woman takes a back seat to NOBODY, regardless of what her role may be. The problem is they are few and far between these days, just as few and far between as are mature, godly men.

But how can it really be otherwise? We have simply refused to believe and obey God and have succumed to the lie that we can carefully cherry-pick what seems appealing from this present culture with no harmful effects. We listen to Imus, Oprah, Dr.Phil, and all sorts of talking heads as if there were really something we could learn from them instead of looking to God. It's for our own good that He tells us to come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing. We are not watchful, allowing most anything into our minds.

Now I'm not a prude, I watch an occasional movie, enjoy an occasional glass of wine, carefully shop the stores, etc. - we have to live in the world. My biggest thing right now is keeping Georgia Bulldog football in its place, hoping the Lord doesn't ask me to give it up. But without hijacking the thread may I say that God has shown me (through experience) that we have to 'step back' and separate from the culture, and more that that 'step back' from TIME ITSELF, because it's not just this culture that loves evil, this is just the latest. That is another long thread.

The point is we won't have emotional men/women issues if we look to God and take in more of HIM than we do the world. We will all fit work together in harmony as He meant for us to. This is not easy, but very difficult because of technology - we are constantly bombarded with present culture whether we like it or not.

 

Usurping authority has to do with playing the master. A woman privately pointing out an error in a preacher's teaching is not playing the master.

 

How do you reconcile your comments with Ro 10:14,15, "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!"

 

My wife has asked me if she could preach a few times!!

 

Unfortunately, yes.

And believe it or not, I do not bear that frayed nerve as a banner nor to receive accolades for it, but I bear it embarrassingly.

I do not believe in women being pastors of a church. I believe that they can be behind the pulpit and make announcements, sing, lead devotions, give testimony, or any other such thing as long as she is under the umbrella of authority of the pastor and he deems her to be there.

So my defensiveness doesn't come from disagreeing with you nor others.

It comes from a much deeper place.

Peace-
S.O. </font>[/QUOTE]Scarlett---no offense taken---nor given--you know that, don't you??!!

My wife and I feel the same as you do---it is a sensative subject----the sexes, family, men & women, husband & wife, leadership roles in each scenerio.

I hold the word from the Word as being the infallable, inerrant, inspired word of God we call Scripture---we must obey jot and tittle--obey is better than sacrifice!!

So---hang in there, Sister---keep seeking the Kingdom of God and His righteousness---God Bless!!

Your Southern Baptist preaching buddy,
Bro. David

 

Scarlett, you gotta stop holding in how you feel. It is not good for your health

 

I take it you "women" never heard the old saying:

The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.

The "woman" may not be sitting in the "Oval Office", but the "ideas/opinions/morals" she taught the "SON" sitting there are guiding his decisions.

This little principle wasn't lost on Satan or Hilleary, in her book, "It take a community". (to raise a child)

 

me4Him, brilliant insight.
BapMom, you have a humble wisdom that inspires respect.

The context of aged women teaching the younger is given in Titus 2. It is not a woman teaching Bible to a congregation of women.
I absolutely agree about the importance of praying women. I think this has been underestimated. I have this imagery in mind when I think of this;
I always picture a raging war where waves of men clash swords with the enemy while the women cover them from behind with a rain of arrows.
The judgment seat of Christ will have a lot to say about the role of praying women in the lives of others.

Scarlett, I sympathize. I don't think you have peace yet over the issue, but certainly you have more than a point. I value your insight over how the problem is reinforced by both the attitudes of men and women.
Your indignation about the responsibilities of men is in its place, though born out of an agitated spirit. I would advise you to take it to the Lord and lay it at his feet, because though you are right, that feeling might distend within you and result in something else.

Yes, men generally and especially pastors will have a lot to answer for at the judgment seat of Christ. A man that strays from being under Christ has no other immediate head and so is all the more inclined to stumble.

We men should take and bear the responsibility but we don't. I think we have inherited Adam's disposition.

The original order, it is clear, goes back to beyond the fall. It is not simply because Eve was deceived.
Now the Lord has built a system in which the sons of men can never be without the woman because every man was born of a woman. (1Corinthians 11) Our God is wise.

I think Satan played on Eve and exploited something there, I don't know what to call it. Some germ of resentment? rebellion?
And women have inherited it. Satan lied, and made God to look unjust and evil, Perish the tought. Praise God when we will have our glorified bodies, they will have no sin in them. That day nothing you will want or desire will be evil or wrong or foolish; imagine that.

The point has been made about the world's influence. Indeed. And here's the verse that offers insight

1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

So why does the world today glorify women and is moving towards godess worship? Because it is glorifying man himself, since the woman is his own image and glory.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

[ March 10, 2006, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Eleazar the Ahohite ]