women teachers

[Jim1999]

The scripture is clear to some, but not to all, on a woman assuming leadership. My group of baptists will only accept men as pastors, and yet our seminary had a woman teaching Hebrew. Now pay mind, she was teaching pastors the Bible in Hebrew and was well received. So, where do we draw that line again?? Hmmmm

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Tater77]

I believe there is a difference in a woman teaching Sunday School, and pastoring a church.

Agreed. :applause:

A Pastoral position is an authority figure, a Sunday school teacher is more an academic figure.

 

[annsni]

The scripture is clear to some, but not to all, on a woman assuming leadership. My group of baptists will only accept men as pastors, and yet our seminary had a woman teaching Hebrew. Now pay mind, she was teaching pastors the Bible in Hebrew and was well received. So, where do we draw that line again?? Hmmmm

Cheers,

Jim

Was that in the church?

 

[annsni]

Exactly, that's about a woman and her husband, not a woman and all males everywhere.

Since the word is not "aner" meaning "man", which CAN mean husband but it doesn't always mean that (it is a word spoken of John the Baptist who was not a husband), we cannot say that it is just specifically for a husband but for men in general.

 

[annsni]

Most men I've heard can't teach exegetically to save their lives. There may not be Scriptural precedence, but I say let the women try. My wife is theologically deeper than most men who teach in our church. There's no Scriptural basis for much of how the modern church operates, but that hasn't stopped us yet. :BangHead:

So because men can't teach to save their lives, we need to put women in there - despite what the Scriptures say? Wow. The Scriptural basis is clear - Paul points to creation. That's quite the basis, IMO.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

So because men can't teach to save their lives, we need to put women in there - despite what the Scriptures say? Wow. The Scriptural basis is clear - Paul points to creation. That's quite the basis, IMO.

A little hyperbole to make a point. We turn our heads to so much unScriptural tradition in our churches, is it really much worse to let women teach? I actually don't believe they should teach men, but Scripture also says that they should not wear makeup, curl their hair, speak while the congregation is assembled. I love how we draw lines based upon some Scripture & ignore those that are not politically correct or would not be popular with the people.

Do you draw the line according to all of Scripture or do you explain away the parts about women in the congregation via culture & tradition? Sole-authority pastorship has done more damage to the church than allowing women to teach ever will. It is funny to watch "hell fire & brimstone" preachers, who are "never wrong" & condemn every preference they don't like from the pulpit, dance around these verses:


Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

 

[Jerome]

What I Tim. 2:12 is referring to:

[it's not] all males everywhere

[it's] men in general

Do you see any difference between "all males everywhere" and "men in general"?

 

[annsni]

A little hyperbole to make a point. We turn our heads to so much unScriptural tradition in our churches, is it really much worse to let women teach? I actually don't believe they should teach men, but Scripture also says that they should not wear makeup, curl their hair, speak while the congregation is assembled. I love how we draw lines based upon some Scripture & ignore those that are not politically correct or would not be popular with the people.

Can you show me where Scripture says that women shouldn't wear makeup, curl their hair or speak while the congregation is assembled?

Do you draw the line according to all of Scripture or do you explain away the parts about women in the congregation via culture & tradition? Sole-authority pastorship has done more damage to the church than allowing women to teach ever will. It is funny to watch "hell fire & brimstone" preachers, who are "never wrong" & condemn every preference they don't like from the pulpit, dance around these verses:


Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

Yep - Those are wonderful instructional command passages and I pray that the Spirit helps me to follow the Word daily. I don't see pastors "dancing" around these passages at all unless they are the pastors who are promoting women pastors.

 

[annsni]

What I Tim. 2:12 is referring to:



Do you see any difference between "all males everywhere" and "men in general"?

Well, I just used Blue Letter Bible. The word is "aner" which is translated as man, husband, sir, and fellow in the King James. Some of the passages where it is found:

Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"

Matthew 12:41 "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here."

Matthew 14:21 "And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children."

James 1:8 "A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways."

1 Corinthians 11:8 "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man."

Yes, it is often translated as husband, but it is not the only meaning of the word.

 

[Jerome]

But surely you are not saying that women must never usurp the authority of "men in general"?

 

[michael-acts17:11]

I don't see pastors "dancing" around these passages at all unless they are the pastors who are promoting women pastors.

When was the last time you heard a Baptist pastor, especially the IFB, teach these verses as they are written? I have NEVER heard them taught without caveats & excuses for why they aren't enforced as written. ALL pastors preach those things that are expedient for their position.

 

[go2church]

I guess I would agree with the deacon, sorry you feel that way. I am of the opinion that women should be allowed to follow where the Spirit leads and gives opportunity, even if that is to the pulpit.

 

[Gina B]

I have no solid scriptural back-up to say a woman can't teach. There seems to be some indications that they can and did, but there also seems to be indicators saying they need permission.

My personal reasons?

One is that I am more open to a man's teaching than a woman's teaching. As a woman I know that emotions can outweight common sense a lot of times. Men tend to be more black and white, not as easily swayed, and have more leadership type qualities. So I am more likely to respect and believe the teachings of a man.

Now that I've turned all the women against me, I may as well continue...

A teacher/pastor is a spiritual leader. If my husband is to be under any woman, that woman better be me! If he needs guidance or clarification, I'd much prefer his dependence on such to be towards a man. Part of it is that people tend to be physically attracted to leaders. From what so many men on this board say, they might have a difficult time learning from a woman who is a little too easy on their eyes.

I know it goes both ways, but I can guarantee there's a lot more ugly guy teachers than girl teachers. LOL

Now if the woman was 99 and smelled bad and was covered in leaking pustules and had black stumps for teeth, I'd be much more likely to say "sure, you can teach my husband!"

 

[Arbo]

As long as the woman is operating under the authority of the pastor, I don't think this is a problem.

Food for thought. Thanks for this.

I must confess to being more of a traditionalist, but lately I have been rethinking a few of my views.

 

[jaigner]

I travel often and the last time I walked into a church and was told there was a woman pastor,I turned to walk out,a deacon said why are you going?
I explained I needed to leave so not to dis-obey God.
He said I am sorry you feel that way. I explained how I felt about it has nothing to do with it.....but that the scripture is clear on it.

Unfortunately, this kind of logic is pretty divisive. This issue is not so clear to the majority of evangelicals, so it's one we have to address with generosity and reconciliation. Otherwise, we're only drawing a line in the sand between us and other believers and saying, "I'm right and you're not following God."

Even if I did believe women should not be pastors, which I don't, certainly it wouldn't be disobedient to ATTEND the church one time. It would be the woman who was disobeying in that case, not those listening.

Before I was convicted to change my position on this issue, I time and again attended a church with a female pastor. Being a musician, sometimes I didn't have much of a choice, since I was performing a service. Also, in college, I sang in choirs at such churches. I think the fact that we're so vehement in our disagreements does much to tear the Church apart.

I guess I would agree with the deacon, sorry you feel that way. I am of the opinion that women should be allowed to follow where the Spirit leads and gives opportunity, even if that is to the pulpit.

Well stated, friend.

Blessings.

 

[mets65]

I don't mind it at all when it comes to Sunday school. I've heard some good women Sunday school teachers. I do disagree with women pastoring churches.

 

[CF1]

If you are interested in what the Bible says, rather than opinions and proof texts, here is a good book titled "Equal Yet Different"

 

[go2church]

I have no solid scriptural back-up to say a woman can't teach. There seems to be some indications that they can and did, but there also seems to be indicators saying they need permission.

My personal reasons?

One is that I am more open to a man's teaching than a woman's teaching. As a woman I know that emotions can outweight common sense a lot of times. Men tend to be more black and white, not as easily swayed, and have more leadership type qualities. So I am more likely to respect and believe the teachings of a man.

Now that I've turned all the women against me, I may as well continue...

A teacher/pastor is a spiritual leader. If my husband is to be under any woman, that woman better be me! If he needs guidance or clarification, I'd much prefer his dependence on such to be towards a man. Part of it is that people tend to be physically attracted to leaders. From what so many men on this board say, they might have a difficult time learning from a woman who is a little too easy on their eyes.

I know it goes both ways, but I can guarantee there's a lot more ugly guy teachers than girl teachers. LOL

Now if the woman was 99 and smelled bad and was covered in leaking pustules and had black stumps for teeth, I'd be much more likely to say "sure, you can teach my husband!"

Sexism alive and well on the ole BB! How is ok for you, a woman, to be under the teaching of another man, yet your husband not to be under the teaching of another woman? Makes no sense whatsoever. If any man has mommy issues and is not able to control himself or his thoughts while a woman speaks, that is their problem not the teachers.

It is crazy to me that we allow the cultural issues of the 1st century restrain clearly gifted and called woman here in the 21st.

And the whole men are more black and white, woman more emotional thing is so old and worn, it really needs to be put to pasture already. Ever watch football coaches, sure there are some wild and crazy and some not so much. You can't paint with such a wide brush, when it comes to individuals, that is why they are called individuals after all.

 

[go2church]

If you are interested in what the Bible says, rather than opinions and proof texts, here is a good book titled "Equal Yet Different"

It is absolutely hilarious that you say "if you are interested in what the Bible says..." then have a link to book, that is not the Bible! Bravo

You make the assumption that I am not familiar with, read or studied the Bible in coming to the conclusions I have concerning woman in ministry, that would be wrong. It is exactly because I have read and studied the Bible that I have come to my conclusions.

 

[Iconoclast]

Unfortunately, this kind of logic is pretty divisive. This issue is not so clear to the majority of evangelicals, so it's one we have to address with generosity and reconciliation. Otherwise, we're only drawing a line in the sand between us and other believers and saying, "I'm right and you're not following God."

Even if I did believe women should not be pastors, which I don't, certainly it wouldn't be disobedient to ATTEND the church one time. It would be the woman who was disobeying in that case, not those listening.

Before I was convicted to change my position on this issue, I time and again attended a church with a female pastor. Being a musician, sometimes I didn't have much of a choice, since I was performing a service. Also, in college, I sang in choirs at such churches. I think the fact that we're so vehement in our disagreements does much to tear the Church apart.



Well stated, friend.

Blessings.

Obeying 1 tim2, is not logic...but the command of God.The blessing of God will not be there.
The Holy Spirit does not lead anyone to disobey scripture.
If a sodomite was in the pulpit would you stay so as not to be divisive,or would you conclude he was also led by the Spirit?
I will draw a line in the sand where the scripture does