women teachers

[Jerome]

I...saw this article by Thabiti Anyabwile and thought it was good.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs...but-women-must-be-taught-and-they-must-teach/

Thank you so much Annsni for posting that. I especially like that Baptist pastor's statement that:

I once had a lovely brother tell me that because the culture has swung so far toward obliterating gender distinctions and roles the church must swing far in the other direction to hold the line.

That is, of course, exactly what happened.

As I have repeatedly shown, even Fundamentalist Baptist churches were welcoming women teachers in the early twentieth century.

Brooklyn Daily Eagle ad, 1931:

Here's Miss Cristabel Pankhurst, teaching on Bible prophecy.

Sixth Avenue Baptist Church, a Fundamentalist Independent Baptist congregation

And a Washington Post article, 1940:

Miss Amy Lee Stockton teaching on "Today's Task and Tomorrow's Triumph".
This was her twelfth appearance at the church.

Yes, this is Metropolitan Baptist Church, now known as Capitol Hill Baptist Church (Pastor Mark Dever); according to their website the church has always been "doctrinally conservative".

 

[JohnDeereFan]

We just moved and visited a SBC church today and the Sunday School class was taught by a woman. I was told her and a man take turns every Sunday in teaching.

Unless it's a women's Bible study or one of those Bible studies churches put on to convince the unsaved, "Hey, we're nice people. Jesus is really cool.", then, yes, I have a problem with it.

She did a great job and was I could tell she knew her Bible very well from the answers she gave to those who raised questions.

It's not a matter of ability. It's a matter of role.

Better to have a mediocre man teach than an outstanding woman.

I think I could sit under a woman again, but would you all advise us to look elsewhere for a church? Thanks

Not necessarily. You might need to find another Sunday School class, but not necessarily another church.

While the Bible is abundantly clear that women are not to teach men, it's not heresy (now, if we're talking a woman pastor, then, yes, you need to leave). I wouldn't attend that Sunday School class and I would make my concerns known to the pastor, but if the church is teaching sound doctrine and meets other Biblical criteria, then I wouldn't have a problem staying in the church.

On the other hand, if it's really a thorn in your conscience, especially if you feel that it's going to cause a division between you and the church or that your disagreement is going to cause division, then it would be better if you left.

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. I'm on enough cold medicine to bring down a bull elephant.

 

[annsni]

Obeying 1 tim2, is not logic...but the command of God.The blessing of God will not be there.
The Holy Spirit does not lead anyone to disobey scripture.
If a sodomite was in the pulpit would you stay so as not to be divisive,or would you conclude he was also led by the Spirit?
I will draw a line in the sand where the scripture does

Amen! :thumbsup:

 

[annsni]

When was the last time you heard a Baptist pastor, especially the IFB, teach these verses as they are written? I have NEVER heard them taught without caveats & excuses for why they aren't enforced as written. ALL pastors preach those things that are expedient for their position.

Well, we're not IFB but IB and it's taught from the pulpit and in classes as well. It's a general teaching of our church.

 

[Amy.G]

Better to have a mediocre man teach than an outstanding woman.

If that's all I can get, I'll just stay home and do my own studying.

 

[annsni]

Unless it's a women's Bible study or one of those Bible studies churches put on to convince the unsaved, "Hey, we're nice people. Jesus is really cool.", then, yes, I have a problem with it.



It's not a matter of ability. It's a matter of role.

Better to have a mediocre man teach than an outstanding woman.



Not necessarily. You might need to find another Sunday School class, but not necessarily another church.

While the Bible is abundantly clear that women are not to teach men, it's not heresy (now, if we're talking a woman pastor, then, yes, you need to leave). I wouldn't attend that Sunday School class and I would make my concerns known to the pastor, but if the church is teaching sound doctrine and meets other Biblical criteria, then I wouldn't have a problem staying in the church.

On the other hand, if it's really a thorn in your conscience, especially if you feel that it's going to cause a division between you and the church or that your disagreement is going to cause division, then it would be better if you left.

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. I'm on enough cold medicine to bring down a bull elephant.

I agree with you JDF. I hope you feel better soon!! I'm on week 5.5 of being sick - and my throat is beginning to hurt again which is how the last illness got me. I STILL don't have my voice fully back, much to the glee of my husband and children.

 

[CF1]

It is absolutely hilarious that you say "if you are interested in what the Bible says..." then have a link to book, that is not the Bible! Bravo

You make the assumption that I am not familiar with, read or studied the Bible in coming to the conclusions I have concerning woman in ministry, that would be wrong. It is exactly because I have read and studied the Bible that I have come to my conclusions.

Yes, I must admit you are right!

On the other hand the book I mentioned does have many references to the Bible verses on the subject.

 

[Gina B]

Sexism alive and well on the ole BB! How is ok for you, a woman, to be under the teaching of another man, yet your husband not to be under the teaching of another woman? Makes no sense whatsoever.

My husband is the spiritual leader in our home. He is following scripture and doing the right thing by putting us in a church that we believe adheres as close as possible to scripture.
That includes putting ourselves under the guidance of our pastor, who is a learned man and in the position of guiding the church and teaching us what he has learned.

I find that makes very good sense!

If any man has mommy issues and is not able to control himself or his thoughts while a woman speaks, that is their problem not the teachers.

I'm a little thrown here. Why are you connecting the male s*x drive with mommy issues? EW! That's sick! If any man is connecting these thoughts with his mother, I hope that man seeks some really good mental healthcare.
I've gotta repeat this...EEWW!

It is crazy to me that we allow the cultural issues of the 1st century restrain clearly gifted and called woman here in the 21st.

I don't feel restrained at all. I love to learn and study and could probably out-teach any Sunday School teacher I've been under. But you know what? I don't teach. And you know what? I always learn something new in Sunday School. I believe the reason is that when you listen and do what is right, God will allow you to grasp something new and understand things on a deeper level, even when the person speaking may not have as much head knowledge as you or if he isn't the greatest speaker around.

And the whole men are more black and white, woman more emotional thing is so old and worn, it really needs to be put to pasture already. Ever watch football coaches, sure there are some wild and crazy and some not so much. You can't paint with such a wide brush, when it comes to individuals, that is why they are called individuals after all.

Yep, it's old, but "ancient words are ever true."
If that makes me a s*xist then alrighty.

Men will always be men. Women will always be women. Vive la différence!

We will always be different. There's no point buying into the silly idea that the only differences are anatomical. We are physically, emotionally, and spiritually different. Men are called out to be spiritual leaders. Women are told to accept that men have that authority over them.

So I hope it continues for centuries to come.

Can you explain why it's so important to people to try to make everyone the same? Men and women are different and I see and appreciate those differences. There are tons of color and races and when I look out, I don't see all the same faces. I see separate ones and love the difference. Now we've even got loony people trying to make animals the same as humans. What's next? Veggies? Am I going to be expected to see my husband and the broccoli I put on his dinner plate in the same light?

Silliness. All silliness.

 

[Tom Butler]

The scripture is clear to some, but not to all, on a woman assuming leadership. My group of baptists will only accept men as pastors, and yet our seminary had a woman teaching Hebrew. Now pay mind, she was teaching pastors the Bible in Hebrew and was well received. So, where do we draw that line again?? Hmmmm

Cheers,

Jim

Your Hebrew professor is teaching in a seminary, not a church. Big difference, in my view, Jim.

I can anticipate the response--Yeah, here's a brilliant Hebrew scholar, and you won't let her use her teaching gift in church.

Actually, she can teach all the women and children in the church.

The brilliance of her gift is beside the point.

 

[Jim1999]

You fail to separate God's teaching and cultural runoff. Check out thoroughly the story of Phoebe, the stories of Ruth and Esther, and many more women leaders of God's people.

Check out the problems with particular women in that church. Why don't women to-day have long hair, as that same scripture intones? Why aren't wives silent..and I mean silent, as that scriptures supposedly teaches, and get their information at home?

By he way, going back to what you said, it would be ok for a woman to preach the word to men at home, just don't do it in a church. I got your point, and we should be wearing sandals and long gowns. Women should be sitting in the balconies.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[annsni]

What directions to the church in Scripture do we explain away as cultural? Besides the woman pastor thing?

 

[BobinKy]

For those who think women are not to teach men...

Are you people saying a woman is prohibited from ever teaching a man anything? anywhere? anytime?​

...Bob

 

[preacher4truth]

The Scriptures are plain on this issue. Some just think they're smarter and more wise than Almighty God and His Word. I'll stick to the Book. No women teachers or preachers for us. The next step for these churches is ordaining of h*m*sectuals. Not all, but to many, yep.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Well, we're not IFB but IB and it's taught from the pulpit and in classes as well. It's a general teaching of our church.

Are you saying that women in your church do not wear makeup, curl their hair, or speak in congregational gatherings, according to Scripture?

 

[SaggyWoman]

I have sat under many a woman who taught the word of God and did a good job. Same with a man.

I have sat under many a woman who couldn't teach the word of God. Same with a man.

If they don't teach well or the right things, I go to another class. If there is consistently bad teaching, I go to another church.

 

[CF1]

Here is a free online book in PDF form on the subject

Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood - A Response to Evangelical Feminism

 

[michael-acts17:11]

What directions to the church in Scripture do we explain away as cultural? Besides the woman pastor thing?

The following verses are most often explained away as having been applicable only to the culture in which they were written:

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel...

 

[Jim1999]

F,F. Bruce on females in scripture:

http://www.christchurchreformed.com...03 (014 Female Pastors and Homosexuality).htm

 

[go2church]

http://www.cbeinternational.org/

link for a perspective from the other side

 

[CF1]

F,F. Bruce on females in scripture:

http://www.christchurchreformed.com...03 (014 Female Pastors and Homosexuality).htm

Jim1999,
From the website referenced above, the authors who quote F.F. Bruce also point out the dangers of extending human logic further and further...

C. A more literal translation of Galatians 3:28, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is not/no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

a. Exegetes not only argue that the Mosaic, social and ecclesiological distinctions between male and female have been eradicated. They are now beginning to argue that the biological distinctions between male and female have been eradicated (an androgynous church). “What he says is that there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, no male and female. I think the reason he says “no male and female” rather than “neither male nor female” is that he is actually quoting Genesis 1:27” (N.T. Wright, “The Biblical Basis for Women’s Service in the Church”).

b. Exegetes have pointed out that Galatians 3:28 trumps other Pauline texts on women (e.g. F.F. Bruce). Now they are doing the same thing for other Pauline texts of marriage and homosexuality.

i. It is argued that when Paul says there is “no male nor female” he is quoting Genesis 1:27.

ii. If there is no male and female when it comes to church offices then why is there a distinction between male and female when it comes to marriage?