women teachers

[BobinKy]

Women Ministering by Scot McKnight.

The website Christians for Biblical Equality, suggested by another person in a previous post of this thread, has a newsletter and several articles about gender issues for evangelicals.

...Bob

 

[jaigner]

Bob, you can post all of the ridiculous propaganda you want but Scripture is pretty clear. If you choose to go against it, that is your choice but do not tell those who DO follow it that they are wrong.

Ann...seriously...we are not ignoring Scripture. We are not tossing it. We are not bending it. We are not looking for loopholes. If we are, may we be judged accordingly. But we are seeking to be faithful to the Bible and grace. In fact, I was staunchly against female leadership until I was convicted otherwise through much theological study and prayer.

Obviously, since I believe it to be this way, I implicitly believe the other side is wrong, but I'm not sitting here calling you ignorant or dishonest or unbelievers or anything else. We can still learn from each other and be counted as brothers and sisters in Christ. Differences, even profound ones, can exist.

 

[annsni]

There was no women as part of the twelve. Perhaps you wrote that incorrectly?

Nope - it was being sarcastic. Go2church said "I for one am glad Jesus wasn't a sexist and didn't continue in the sexist attitudes of the day. I am glad that he was able to transcend all the cultural norms of the day and included women, mere property at the time, in the work of the Kingdom of God and empower them with the exact same Holy Spirit to be ministers of reconciliation." and I commented with what I did about Jesus choosing women as part of the 12. In other words, Jesus still kept a male group of leaders - just as He has us do later for the church.

Also there is no scripture that teaches that women prophesy in church. Yes they did and can prophesy, but they did not do it in the church as is clear as the admonition to remain silent and not teach men. The church back then did not have Sunday school. They met under the leadership of men.
As for the praying I think you are using today's system to identify the early church. They could pray, but unlike today they would not have been called on for prayer in an open congregation. Their praying would be personal/private and even then done with head covered if they were shorn.

What is the context of 1 Corinthians 11?

 

[jaigner]

You asked for advice and it is simple. LEAVE! Here is the reason. A woman is not permitted to teach men, period. You say that she knows scripture, but it is clear she does not obey scripture so why would you want to be led by someone not being led by the Spirit?

This church is not disobeying according to its biblical interpretation. They can disagree with you or I and still be among the faithful. This issue is not so cut and dry. We have to interpret the Bible after reading...not doing so is dangerous.

That is shameful behavior. I see you have little respect for Gods Word when you do this, and mock those who highly respect it and turn to it.

Ding, ding, ding - there's the condescension meter.

I for one am glad Jesus wasn't a sexist and didn't continue in the sexist attitudes of the day. I am glad that he was able to transcend all the cultural norms of the day and included women, mere property at the time, in the work of the Kingdom of God and empower them with the exact same Holy Spirit to be ministers of reconciliation.

Is it really salvation if we are saved and then are immediately bound again by a role that is determined by our gender? Salvation is salvation from all the effects of the Fall or it is not really salvation.

Great thoughts, as always. I especially appreciate the reference to the effects from the fall. Just because it was pronounced that patriarchy was an effect of the fall does not mean it must stay that way. In fact, as part of the Kingdom, we are pressing to overcome the effects of the fall, which will one day be completed.

Rebellion at is highest.

Please don't make these statements. They are nothing if not divisive. You are talking to someone who obviously is committed to being faithful. If we differ, it's not simply because of dishonesty or rebellion.

There was no women as part of the twelve. Perhaps you wrote that incorrectly?

The fact that no woman was part of the 12 hardly constitutes biblical proof of any sort. It is cultural, not normative.

 

[annsni]

The fact that no woman was part of the 12 hardly constitutes biblical proof of any sort. It is cultural, not normative.

So Jesus was worried about culture and conformed to culture rather than truth? Seriously? I'm sorry but I see no support for that.

 

[preacher4truth]

Ding, ding, ding - there's the condescension meter.

Nope. Wrong again. That's the you don't know what you're talking about meter. Congrats. :thumbsup:

Whenever anyone who is a believer mocks someone for adhering to Scripture, reading Scripture, then they're going to hear what I've said. You included. And he earned it.

That you think defending and rebuking one for this is condescending is hilarious!

That you can't see calling one's behavior shameful for mocking the Word of God, and readers thereof, is in itself shameful.

Sometimes you gotta know when to rebuke, and sometimes you gotta know when to not say a word. You need to learn both. :wavey:

 

[freeatlast]

Nope - it was being sarcastic. Go2church said "I for one am glad Jesus wasn't a sexist and didn't continue in the sexist attitudes of the day. I am glad that he was able to transcend all the cultural norms of the day and included women, mere property at the time, in the work of the Kingdom of God and empower them with the exact same Holy Spirit to be ministers of reconciliation." and I commented with what I did about Jesus choosing women as part of the 12. In other words, Jesus still kept a male group of leaders - just as He has us do later for the church.




What is the context of 1 Corinthians 11?

Thank you for the explaination.
The context is on submission and authority and how it is to be honored. What we know is that a woman can prophesy, but she cannot do it in the church as a regular gathering where men are present;
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

This passage in chapter 14 is dealing with the actual church coming together and women are not permitted to hold the position to speak.

 

[freeatlast]

This church is not disobeying according to its biblical interpretation. They can disagree with you or I and still be among the faithful. This issue is not so cut and dry. We have to interpret the Bible after reading...not doing so is dangerous.

No one is faithful when they are in disobedience and just because someone decides to interpret instead of obeying they do not get a get out of jail card. They are still unfaithful.

 

[freeatlast]

So Jesus was worried about culture and conformed to culture rather than truth? Seriously? I'm sorry but I see no support for that.

I agree. The Lord never gave instructions to the church because if culture. Those who claim this have turned off their brain. First the church was behind closed doors. The world would not know or care what the did. Second the Lord is never subject to culture. The culture is however subject to Him.

 

[preacher4truth]

No one is faithful when they are in disobedience and just because someone decides to interpret instead of obeying they do not get a get out of jail card. They are still unfaithful.

Yup.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[BobinKy]

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I've been in churches where both men and women have taught SS classes. I've had competent men SS teachers and incompetent ones. Same with women.

If it came down to a choice of being taught by a man with mediocre understanding of the Bible, and a woman with an outstanding understanding of the Bible, I'd probably sit in the woman's SS class every time.

And that is your right. I think I'd pick the Biblical one.

I want to be taught by someone who knows the material they are teaching on; by someone that can help me grow in my walk and my understanding of the Lord.

I'd rather be taught by someone who may need a little help every now and then, but is obedient and takes God's Word seriously.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Seriously? So, despite claiming a firm commitment to Scripture, you would rather be taught Scripture by someone who is far from the most qualified and gifted?

God is the one who declared that women are not to teach men. I'll leave the consequences of that declaration up to Him.

This is a good example of the way biases work. Women are equally as gifted at leadership, and perhaps more gifted in some instances, since they tend to approach leadership collaboratively.

It has nothing to do with being gifted or not being gifted. It has to do with whether or not you're going to go by what God says.

But many people, including the majority of evangelicals, believe wholeheartedly, through careful prayer and interpretation, that women should be allowed to lead. We depend on the Bible, too. Saying we're so clearly wrong not only over-simplifies the issue, but it excludes many devout, faithful believers.

Since when are we to determine truth by majority vote?

 

[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon preaching from Romans 16 (v. 3 "Priscilla and Aquila"):

This couple appears to have been advanced Christians, for they became instructors of others—and not merely teachers of the ignorant, but teachers of those who already knew much of the Gospel, for they instructed young Apollos—an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures. They taught him the way of God more perfectly and therefore we may be sure were deep-taught Christians themselves.

I should not wonder but he put them in order according to quality rather than according to the rule of sex. He named Priscilla, first, because she was first in energy of character and attainments in Divine Grace. There is a precedence which, in Christ, is due to the woman when she becomes the leader in devotion and manifests the stronger mind in the things of God. It is well when Nature and Grace both authorize our saying, “Aquila and Priscilla,” but it is not amiss when Grace outruns Nature and we hear of, “Priscilla and Aquila.”

 

[BobinKy]

Let's hear it for Charles Spurgeon.

...Bob

 

[jaigner]

No one is faithful when they are in disobedience and just because someone decides to interpret instead of obeying they do not get a get out of jail card. They are still unfaithful.

They ARE obeying. Believe it or not, some really feel the Spirit leading them to this position. And it comes after much study and prayer.

 

[BobinKy]

 

[Amy.G]

Bob, you've got the sillies! :laugh:

 

[BobinKy]

Its a snow day here in Kentucky.

...Bob

 

[Jerome]

Could it be?
A lady teacher of a co-ed class at Johnson Ferry Baptist of Marietta (pastored by the current President of the Southern Baptist Convention:thumbs