women teachers

[freeatlast]

Wow.

Apparently some here think Jesus Himself was in rebellion when He sent the women to tell the disciples He had risen.

The women were not in an organized church and women can preach openly. However in the case of these women it was neither a church meeting or a teaching time of God's truth.

 

[freeatlast]

Well, for example, in the marriage class, she might explain how women will see things differently than men. No, it's not based on Scripture - it's based on reality. Like we just taught a couple in premarital counseling that often times, women are needing to talk things out with their husband and don't want a "solution" but just someone to listen to them. That's one example. Another was that the wife was telling the men that when a woman stays at home, her home is her "office" and she will see things that need to get done and it will bother her more than it will the man because he's just not seeing it all day. So it's giving a woman's perspective on life and marriage. Even a man can't really explain that to men - it takes a woman. LOL

[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]No disrespect but you are trying to justify the rebellion. If this is done in a class at church or a formal biblical teaching time it is in rebellion. The man can do this just as easily without the wife chiming in and all the time keep the session obedient to the Lord. If she wants to teach women that is fine, but she needs to remain silent when there is biblical teaching or counseling. This kind of thing is why the church is so astray. Just because someone takes a puff off the joint does not make him any less guilty then the one who smokes the whole thing. one minute of teaching where men are present or 1 hour is no different. Trying to justify this by saying she is directing the message to the women is still disobedience. it is nothing but a cloak to mock the intent of scripture. tell her to take the women aside ahead of time alone and say what she wants, but then remain silent when the group comes together.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

 

[freeatlast]

Genesis 3 (English Standard Version)

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God actually say, ...

Exactly! :thumbsup:

 

[freeatlast]

This is one of the most disturbing things I've ever read. It makes feel feel sick, to be quite honest.

That is good! Just think how the Lord feels when He sees the church rebell against His word.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[annsni]

[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]No disrespect but you are trying to justify the rebellion. If this is done in a class at church or a formal biblical teaching time it is in rebellion. The man can do this just as easily without the wife chiming in and all the time keep the session obedient to the Lord. If she wants to teach women that is fine, but she needs to remain silent when there is biblical teaching or counseling. This kind of thing is why the church is so astray. Just because someone takes a puff off the joint does not make him any less guilty then the one who smokes the whole thing. one minute of teaching where men are present or 1 hour is no different. Trying to justify this by saying she is directing the message to the women is still disobedience. it is nothing but a cloak to mock the intent of scripture. tell her to take the women aside ahead of time alone and say what she wants, but then remain silent when the group comes together.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

Where do you come up with counseling as a place a woman needs to keep silent? What about premarital counseling? Does your church only have men do so?

I will agree with you that women are not to be pastors but I disagree that a couple teaching a class together in this manner is in error.

 

[freeatlast]

Where do you come up with counseling as a place a woman needs to keep silent? What about premarital counseling? Does your church only have men do so?

I will agree with you that women are not to be pastors but I disagree that a couple teaching a class together in this manner is in error.

Yes the church I attend only offers men (the pastor) for premarital counseling, but not because it is so bent on obedience to the scripture. It is because that is all that is on staff and this church does not have any women in the position for such things.
The bible does not say that a woman cannot counsel. The scriptures say that a woman cannot teach or exercise authority over a man. In the case of the secular it would make no difference since the counselor is offering secular advice.
In the case of a counselor who is a Christian and offering Christian advise (teaching) then a woman certainly can counsel other women, but not men so as to remain in accord with the scripture. The fact that we change the word from "teaching" to counseling may confuse some, but in fact it does not change the parameters set in scripture and women are not to be teaching men. In the case you gave it is a Christian led class and it should obey the guidelines set by the Lord. Just because it is topicalized does not justify changing the rules to fit our desires. It is still teaching God's principles and women are not to teach men.

 

[CF1]

Here are examples of different environments than formal preaching and teaching in the assembly/church/ekklesia:

* In a home Bible study, where participation, discovery, learning, testimonies, and sharing is encouraged.

* Around a campfire

* On the Baptist Board.

* In a family setting where parents are teaching their children each moment of the day.

 

[freeatlast]

Here are examples of different environments than formal preaching and teaching in church, yet where men and women are participating.

* In a home Bible study, where participation, discovery, learning, testimonies, and sharing is encouraged.

* Around a campfire

* On the Baptist Board.

* In a family setting where parents are teaching their children each moment of the day.

* Many others

Yes those instances are not considered times with the organized church but the principles still apply. If there are males involved in the hearing where any sort of formal or informal teaching is taking place then a male should lead the teaching even and especially in the home. Testimonies or discussion boards do not constitute a time of teaching with authority.

 

[Jerome]

And especially at Priscilla and Aquila's home:thumbs:

 

[gb93433]

Yes the church I attend only offers men (the pastor) for premarital counseling, but not because it is so bent on obedience to the scripture. It is because that is all that is on staff and this church does not have any women in the position for such things.

Are you saying that there is not one woman in your entire church who has studied the Bible and lived long enough who could counsel women?

 

[Alive in Christ]

I would sit under Kay Arthur's teaching any day of the week, as the old saying goes.

There are lots of excellant women bible teachers that both women AND men have been blessed to learn from.


AiC

 

[CF1]

Testimonies or discussion boards do not constitute a time of teaching with authority.

There is recognition of some times when non-silence is utterly needed and highly valuable.

Women help men in many ways if men are wise to listen and learn from them. It may not be in preaching and teaching at church, but it may be in discussons, conversations, communications, etc anywhere and everywhere else. There is nothing worse than an arrogant, prideful preacher who does not listen to his wife's communications, or attempts to be heard. The whole congregation suffers when the husband and wife do not work together in mutual harmony and mutual respect for each others gifts. They are out of balance and they portray a conflict rather than harmony. That becomes a poor example to follow for the church.

My wife often teaches me many things, sometimes in subtle ways, sometimes in less suble ways, that I can ignore or recognize as a place and time where God is trying to use her to help me. I need her help many times for advice and wisdom. I must humbly admit that. That's why God gave her to me. She is my better half. I don't know what I'd do without her.

 

[CF1]

I would sit under Kay Arthur's teaching any day of the week, as the old saying goes.

There are lots of excellant women bible teachers that both women AND men have been blessed to learn from.

AiC

One problem is when women take over teaching, some men hate going to church and stop going to church. This seems to be pretty prevelant these days.

Women often do lead and teach their husbands, to become involved at church and provide leadership at church.

Behind every man is a woman who is making him what he is.

Women generally have better intuition than men, and this is sometimes true of spiritual things too. Getting the men to discover spiritual things is a much bigger challenge.

These might be reasons why God commanded what He did in the Bible, but I'm just speculating.

He set up men as the leaders and teachers.

Sometimes I tell my kids to teach others in their class in math, or physics, or any hard subject, because then they will learn it better themselves.

Maybe God knew men needed to teach, so they would learn it.

Maybe God had to pick one gender to be responsible and accountable in the home to do certain roles, and that's how he picked it.

Whaterver the reason, we don't know and God didn't say all the reasons, but by faith and grace we obey, while respecting and valuing both genders exactly equally the same.

 

[freeatlast]

Are you saying that there is not one woman in your entire church who has studied the Bible and lived long enough who could counsel women?

No. I am saying that there is no official women's counseling from a woman.The Pastor is somewhat dominate and he does all the counseling. I don’t necessarily agree with it but that is the way it is done. This church has had some serious problems in the past with certain people trying to wrestle power for themselves and it did split about 3 years ago and lost a large part of the membership as I have been told. With this new pastor of two years it is currently growing about 3 to 5 new members a month. Some old ones returning and some new ones from other churches. However seldom a new convert.

 

[freeatlast]

I would sit under Kay Arthur's teaching any day of the week, as the old saying goes.

There are lots of excellant women bible teachers that both women AND men have been blessed to learn from.


AiC

That may have been said but it is not true. Only the Spirit can give understanding since the scripture is spiritually discerned and when a mand or woman violates their God given commands they are not being led by the Spirit. Yes they may say what people like to hear but they do not get what God wants them to hear and those who are willing to violate God’s commands and set under those false teachers are also in rebellion.

 

[webdog]

Curious...for those who think it is wrong for a woman to teach anyone on any occasion...does that make them immune to carrying out the Great Commission?

 

[freeatlast]

One problem is when women take over teaching, some men hate going to church and stop going to church. This seems to be pretty prevelant these days.

Women often do lead and teach their husbands, to become involved at church and provide leadership at church.

Behind every man is a woman who is making him what he is.

Women generally have better intuition than men, and this is sometimes true of spiritual things too. Getting the men to discover spiritual things is a much bigger challenge.

These might be reasons why God commanded what He did in the Bible, but I'm just speculating.

He set up men as the leaders and teachers.

Sometimes I tell my kids to teach others in their class in math, or physics, or any hard subject, because then they will learn it better themselves.

Maybe God knew men needed to teach, so they would learn it.

Maybe God had to pick one gender to be responsible and accountable in the home to do certain roles, and that's how he picked it.

Whaterver the reason, we don't know and God didn't say all the reasons, but by faith and grace we obey, while respecting and valuing both genders exactly equally the same.

I would agree that there are those rebellious women who do not submit to their husbands and end up leading them even into ministry. However I would not agree that a rebellious woman makes the man (suggesting making him a better man).
if God does not make the man he is useless. The same with the woman. While the man may very well be whipped into doing her bidding he does not become God’s man by her prodding. God did not give the command for men to teach because he felt the man needed to learn. He gave the command according to scripture because man was first created and then the woman (1Tim 2:13).

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Curious...for those who think it is wrong for a woman to teach anyone on any occasion...does that make them immune to carrying out the Great Commission?

The Biblical prohibition is against women pastoring, preaching, or teaching men in the church, not women evangelizing the lost outside the church.

 

[freeatlast]

Curious...for those who think it is wrong for a woman to teach anyone on any occasion...does that make them immune to carrying out the Great Commission?

I am not sure who believes what you stated, but the answer is No. In fact they should even be doing the baptizing of those who they win to the Lord.

 

[Amy.G]

That may have been said but it is not true. Only the Spirit can give understanding since the scripture is spiritually discerned and when a mand or woman violates their God given commands they are not being led by the Spirit. Yes they may say what people like to hear but they do not get what God wants them to hear and those who are willing to violate God’s commands and set under those false teachers are also in rebellion.

Are you saying Kay Arthur is a false teacher? Or that she doesn't have the Spirit leading her? She is a very gifted teacher and men learn from her of their own free will, not because it was forced on them. So I guess the men that sit under her teaching are being rebellious?