Women Teaching Men

[Bro. Curtis]

A godly woman will sumbit to her husband's authority.

A godly man will submit himself to his wife's needs.

As it is in the godly New Testament church.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Absolutely. The only way anyone can deny that is to flagrantly disregard Gods scriptures.....

Could you source this work for us ?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Isa. 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Your interpretation of this verse implies that only men are the people of God and that children and women are not part of God's people.

 

[annsni]

Your interpretation of this verse implies that only men are the people of God and that children and women are not part of God's people.

I do not see that at all. How can you say that it is his interpretation when all he did was to post a verse>

 

[Jerome]

but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him with them and expounded to him the way of God more definitely and accurately.

Jerome....you evidently missed this... we did not..

I too am puzzled why Icon fingers "they took him" as if it is some profound statement supposedly negating Priscilla being a teacher to preacher Apollos.

 

[annsni]

I too am puzzled why Icon fingers "they took him" as if it is some profound statement supposedly negating Priscilla being a teacher to preacher Apollos.

Well, I'd say "they" is pretty important since we are speaking of a husband and wife together.

Additionally, "they took him" meaning that they did not deal with this in the church but instead took him someplace else.

But the key to me is "they".

 

[Jerome]

So, how does that negate Priscilla being a teacher of preacher Apollos?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Well, I'd say "they" is pretty important since we are speaking of a husband and wife together.

Additionally, "they took him" meaning that they did not deal with this in the church but instead took him someplace else.

But the key to me is "they".

For all we know their home was the church.

 

[annsni]

For all we know their home was the church.

The church is not the building.

 

[Scarlett O.]

And I meant them both. When I said that a woman shouldn't have authority over a man, I meant that both a) she shouldn't be leading him spiritually, and b) she shouldn't be the decision maker.

What if she in some instances has more spiritual discernment over particular matters than he does or is spiritually wiser than he in some matters? It happens, you know.

What if his decision-making is sometimes based on immaturity, impulsiveness, selfishness, carnality, or a complete disregard for the well-being of his family? It happens, you know.

I just don't think that the relationship between a husband and wife is as black and white as you say. Nor do I think that the relationship between a husband and wife is analogous to the military .... as much as I appreciate the military and appreciate the God-instituted relationship of marriage. It's not the same relationship.

 

[Jerome]

II Cor. 16:19
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.



Apollos was preaching in the synagogue; it was from there that "they took him" for teaching.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The church is not the building.

You just destroyed your argument. As the teachers they were the church and he was with and in the church when he was with them.

By the way I agree the real church is not a building. English, unfortunately, is weak in this word and that is a shame.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I do not see that at all. How can you say that it is his interpretation when all he did was to post a verse>

Look at what he said.

When men do not take that responsibility God can and does use women to the shame of the men.

Isa. 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

He is using the scripture reference to defend his first sentence. He said that God would use women to shame men and then he cited the verse in question.

There are three people in this verse: [1] God's people, [2] the oppressors of God's people, and [3] the evil rulers who cause God's people to err and who destroy the paths of God's people.

This verse isn't talking about men, children, and women. If it were, then it would mean, historically speaking, that there were wild bands of 8-year-olds prowling through the countryside terrifying and oppressing all of the men.

And it would mean, historically speaking, that the priests, governors, centurians, and other people in places of leadership were women who forced the men (God's people) to err and who destroyed God's path for his people (men as opposed to women and children). There were not any women in positions of leadership. I don't that's the gist of this verse.

If you look up the words "children" and "women" here, the word children means "someone who makes a fool of someone, deals severely with someone, or who thrusts themselves upon".

If you look at the context of Isaiah 3:1-12, I see where the notion of incompetent leadership and cruel leadership is being talked about.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Bro Curtis...

Could you source this work for us ?

Sorry bout that.

I always provide links. I must have been sleepy or something.

Here it is...




http://www.cbeinternational.org/?q=content/about-cbe

 

[Sapper Woody]

So in the military you do not believe a woman should be an officer? Or you do not believe she should have any authority over women?

However my real question was, what authority do you see your pastor having over you?

I do not believe that a woman should ever have authority over a man. This is one of the reasons I chose a combat MOS. No females allowed (yet), meaning no female officers or NCOs above me.

However, with that being said, we have lost that fight in our culture. I would not leave the military simply because a female was put in charge of me.

Now, as to your real question, the pastor has authority over the governings of the church. He has the responsibility of tending his flock, and trying to get them to return to the fold should they stray. The pastor is servant yes, but also leader. The pastor is to set an example that all his flock can follow.

I don't believe the pastor's authority extends to the home. However, the pastor is the guiding authority of the church.

What if she in some instances has more spiritual discernment over particular matters than he does or is spiritually wiser than he in some matters? It happens, you know.

What if his decision-making is sometimes based on immaturity, impulsiveness, selfishness, carnality, or a complete disregard for the well-being of his family? It happens, you know.

I know it happens, and it is sad. I have to say with humility that when I first got married, I was pretty immature, impulsive, and selfish. However, I am an alpha male. My wife was able to temper me through submissiveness and love. Had she tried to usurp my authority, we'd have butt heads and we'd be much worse off.

As I said, the husband is the one who has to answer for the decisions made in the home. The woman will not answer for them. She only answers how she reacts to the guidance of her husband.

The flip side of that, is that the husband needs to realize tha his decisions affect more than just himself. He would be foolish to make decisions without consulting his wife, who is often more insightful than he is.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I do not believe that a woman should ever have authority over a man. This is one of the reasons I chose a combat MOS. No females allowed (yet), meaning no female officers or NCOs above me.


However, with that being said, we have lost that fight in our culture. I would not leave the military simply because a female was put in charge of me.

This is very gently said and with no desire to antagonize, but I fear you are going to have a very difficult time adjusting to civilian life after your military career is ended. I am not sure how you can prepare yourself for the eventuality.

My wife had an uncle who was career Air Force and he never adjusted to being out of the military. Though well meaning he antagonized many he met. He was fortunate in that many realized where he was coming from, overlooked his overbearing attitude and included him in activities. He as a very good cook, not career related, and one of his great joys each year was joining a group of hunters at their hunt club during deer season. He never hunted, but was their cook and enjoyed their company.

Now, as to your real question, the pastor has authority over the governings of the church. He has the responsibility of tending his flock, and trying to get them to return to the fold should they stray. The pastor is servant yes, but also leader. The pastor is to set an example that all his flock can follow.

1. In what way do you see the authority being manifest?

2. When I was young I expected more of my pastor than myself. When I was middle aged I expected as much of my pastor as myself. Now in old age, and with more experience I do not expect as much of my pastor as of myself. I do not see them as my example.

 

[Jerome]

Baptists generally follow biblical congregational (by all the saints) governance, rather than episcopal (dominance by one man) schemes.

 

[Sapper Woody]

This is very gently said and with no desire to antagonize, but I fear you are going to have a very difficult time adjusting to civilian life after your military career is ended. I am not sure how you can prepare yourself for the eventuality.

I did not take that to be antagonistic at all. Many people who are in the military for a long time have a hard time adjusting to civilian life. I feel I must explain though, I did not say that I would not work under a woman's authority. It is basically a necessity in the civilian world at times. I am merely saying that Biblically, a woman shouldn't have authority over a man.

As to me being able to adjust; maybe, maybe not. I can't say right now. But know that I did not join the military right out of high school. I went to Bible college, worked for a pastor, became ordained, became senior (although interim) pastor of a church, became a youth pastor/principal of a christian school. All before I joined the military. I have a lot of experience working outside the military in the civilian world.

1. In what way do you see the authority being manifest?

2. When I was young I expected more of my pastor than myself. When I was middle aged I expected as much of my pastor as myself. Now in old age, and with more experience I do not expect as much of my pastor as of myself. I do not see them as my example.

The authority is manifest as the Pastor is either the one making all the final decisions in a small church, or at the very least the head of the board of deacons. The discussion of church polity is a different discussion,

This is a bold statement I am about to make which will probably lead to a whole new thread. But, if your pastor is not an example, then you need a new pastor. As sheep in the pastor's "flock", we are to be following him. If he is not a man who should be followed, then he should not be a pastor.

 

[Crabtownboy]

The authority is manifest as the Pastor is either the one making all the final decisions in a small church, or at the very least the head of the board of deacons. The discussion of church polity is a different discussion.

I go to a small Baptist church that is very laity lead. [Actually I believe that if a person is a Christian they are either all clergy or all laity. It is that different people are called to different ministries. Some within the church, like the pastor, and others to their ministries in the world. To me the primary job of the pastor is to help others prepare for taking Christ to those they meet in the jobs, their ministries in the world.]

In our church the only job that is expected of the pastor during worship is the sermon and perhaps the children's sermon though sometimes others conduct the children's sermon. Everything else during the worship service is lay lead.

I know of no Baptist church that would allow a pastor to make all final decisions. I do not see how they could do this and still be called Baptist. This might be an interesting discussion in another thread.

This is a bold statement I am about to make which will probably lead to a whole new thread. But, if your pastor is not an example, then you need a new pastor. As sheep in the pastor's "flock", we are to be following him. If he is not a man who should be followed, then he should not be a pastor.

I have learned during my life that pastors are people and I must allow for their humanity. I do not want to sound like a pious dufus, but I reached a point years ago where I came to the conclusion that it is not reasonable for me, in light of how Christ lived, to set standards for other. My job is to set standards for myself and try to live them. I hope this makes some sense.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Baloney. If you were concerned with setting standards for only yourself, you would not call those who disagree with you "bigots".