Word/Faith Doctrines

[Marcia]

If you want to get a view from the inside, talk with someone who was part of the WoF movement for 25 years. She finally came to the conclusion that first, it didn't work; and second, it wasn't biblical.

Imagine, you come to the point where you no longer believe a doctrine you have held for 25 years. Not only did you believe it, but zealously tried to convince others of its truth. I have a friend who was so traumatized by that experience that she quite going to church for 15 years. She didn't know what to believe, but she stayed away because she didn't want to risk a hurt like that again.

Lemme tell you, she is not the least bit charitable. To her, it's not just a difference of opinion. WoF is a lie, a false gospel, promotes a God who is at the mercy of human beings. Ask her if it's heresy or not. It nearly destroyed her emotionally and spiritually.

This story shows the terrible fallout of the WoF movement that many people do not realize. A lot of people leave this movement because they get sick or someone they love gets sick and when the person does not get well, they are blamed for not having enough faith. So sometimes they leave, disheartened, damaged, possibly thinking they are not saved, maybe rejecting Christ altogether.

A lot of people who leave WF never go back to a church again (this is also true for people who leave cults). It is too painful and they don't trust anyone.

 

[Victorious]

This story shows the terrible fallout of the WoF movement that many people do not realize. A lot of people leave this movement because they get sick or someone they love gets sick and when the person does not get well, they are blamed for not having enough faith. So sometimes they leave, disheartened, damaged, possibly thinking they are not saved, maybe rejecting Christ altogether.

A lot of people who leave WF never go back to a church again (this is also true for people who leave cults). It is too painful and they don't trust anyone.

That was my story. Not having grown up in a Christian home, I knew nothing about Christianity except what my Catholic family members told me. When a group of evangelists came to my workplace and gave me the "gospel" and asked me to say the "sinner's prayer" I really believed I had been saved. I began attending their Four Square church and saw the excesses and heard the false teachings, believing it all to be truth. Tongues speaking (actually babbling), false "miracles", slaying in the spirit (little s). They tell you that those outside of the Pentecostal fiasco don't have the Holy Spirit, so I bought what they said, hook, line and sinker because I had nothing to compare it with. Those who are taught these things look askance at anyone who doesn't accept these carnal manifestations as being from God.

Finally, I left the church and didn't go back until I was really saved some 20 years later. At that time I decided to look into other denominations and finally found scriptural teaching in a Baptist church.

The Wof is a false religion, another gospel, and the damage done to those participating in it is devastating.

 

[ajg1959]

My father in law that is a WoF preacher has hypertension, and his wife has a bad back and diabetes. They have prayed for healing many times, and beleive that their faith is just not strong enough.

To me, this would be very discouraging. I dont see how they can have any faith at all if they feel that they arent healed because of spiritual failure. It would be enough to make me want to quit church.

AJ

 

[Victorious]

My father in law that is a WoF preacher has hypertension, and his wife has a bad back and diabetes. They have prayed for healing many times, and beleive that their faith is just not strong enough.

To me, this would be very discouraging. I dont see how they can have any faith at all if they feel that they arent healed because of spiritual failure. It would be enough to make me want to quit church.

AJ

And many do. The worst part is, many are also so convinced that anyone outside this movement is of the devil that they are afraid to try any other church!

 

[preachinjesus]

I prefer Bible references over a man-made document such as The Apostle's Creed. In fact I believe some of The Apostles Creed to be false teaching in itself, and not biblical, so I surely wouldnt use it to defend false teaching.

To suggest the Apostles Creed is not biblical is foolish (I'm not suggesting that you have done this.) It is a very good place to start when considering the foundations of our faith.

If you want "Bible references" I'm happy to provide if its truly wanted and its not just a passing thing. (Around here few actually interact substantively with posts that take time to create.) :saint:

I never meant to imply that WoF preachers never preach about salvation, what I am saying is that the overall teachings are mostly about health and wealth.....all about what God will do for us, not what we can do for God....and this is very destructive, because it lures people into the church out of selfishness and not repentence.

Oh I completely agree with everyone that WoF is false teaching and anathema. I just disagree is it heresy.

My wife's father is a WoF preacher, and I have heard them "command" God to do things, like they have power over God. In fact, they even admit that they do. They claim that the Bible gives them the right. This is a very bad heresy.

Ironically I see this tendency from many Baptist leaders. THe "Bible gives them the right" to yell, scream, and eviscerate people and call them horrible names in order to "maintain the truth of God."

Every Charasmatic I know is either rich or wants to be rich. (I wont even go into their 1960's country and western hair styles) And this is their center of worship. They see tithes and offerings as an "investment" and are looking for a return in riches.

Two points here:
1. I know a lot of Charismatics and about 50% line up under WoF. Of course one of the large groups I know is from two congregations that are more AoG based than WoF based.
2. How often do our appeal for tithes and offerings in our Baptist churches fall under this category?

As far as a "view" of salvation, there is no such thing as a view...there is only one way to salvation and that is the one the Bible prescribes. Anything else, like baptism, church sacraments, ect is heresy.

I respectfully disagree that that isn't heresy. It is a different theological view. I have many friends in the Lutheran and Episcopal (and Anglican) church who believe in a sacramental faith. I don't believe they are heretics.

And since my wife and I are constantly pressured to be like them, I have studied their doctrines, and attended their churches, and I can honestly say that I believe the doctrine to be straight out of the pits of hell, and that we bible believing christians have no business fellowshipping with them, or accepting them as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Well I certainly appreciate your background and will have you in my prayers for your struggle. While I have had many a WoFer tell me I need to "get a prayer language" or "get that real baptism" I haven't had to deal with constant push to change.

That being said, I do realize that there are many born again Christians that are being decieved by the WoF churches, and I pray that they will be delivered and returned to a bible believing church.

I think you and I completely agree on this but differ on how we classify it. I simply can't call WoF heresy if those who are involved accept the foundaitonal elements of Christianity.

That said, I do believe there are many within the WoF movement and Oneness Pentecostalism who are in heresy.

 

[ajg1959]

The WoF movement is pure evil, and is leading people farther away from God, not closer. I am convinced that Satan runs WoF and that God has no part in it at all.

Heresy does not even begin to describe it.

I hate to be so outspoken about this, but I have seen it ruin too many lives to believe it came from anywhere except the pits of hell.

AJ

 

[Revmitchell]

her⋅e⋅sy
   /ˈhɛrəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [her-uh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -sies.
1. opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, esp. of a church or religious system.
2. the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine.
3. Roman Catholic Church. the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church.
4. any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc.

It is heresy to be sure

 

[Marcia]

It is heresy because they have a different God and Jesus, and also teach the atonement was not complete at the cross.

 

[zrs6v4]

Why does the "WOF" sound very similar to that of most common preaching methods of "salvation" today? or maybe Im relating it quite wrong.....

I guess my main point is what is the difference between faith for salvation vs faith in healing?

If anyone can have faith for salvation (spiritually healing), then why not healing physically?

I have thought this for a long time and maybe you guys can give some good answers from the scripture.... thanks

 

[rbell]

Why does the "WOF" sound very similar to that of most common preaching methods of "salvation" today? or maybe Im relating it quite wrong.....

If WoF preaching sounds like evangelism to you, perhaps you need to listen to a different preacher...

I guess my main point is what is the difference between faith for salvation vs faith in healing?

If anyone can have faith for salvation (spiritually healing), then why not healing physically?

Tons: First, God never promises that everyone gets healed physically (on Earth. My argument is that God heals all Christians...some here, and some at Home), and it is not His will for all to be physically healed. Precisely the opposite is true of salvation. Second...our faith doesn't save us. God saves us. Third, there is nothing wrong with praying for healing. In fact, in most cases, we probably should. But the healing is up to God...and is not up to us to question, or (as WoF people do) to demand...as if God is Santa Claus or hired help.

 

[OldRegular]

The WoF movement is pure evil, and is leading people farther away from God, not closer. I am convinced that Satan runs WoF and that God has no part in it at all.

Heresy does not even begin to describe it.

I hate to be so outspoken about this, but I have seen it ruin too many lives to believe it came from anywhere except the pits of hell.

AJ

You are correct in speaking out against the Word Faith movement. You have aptly defined that movement. We have become so politically correct in this country, even in our churches, that people are afraid to call evil by its name and origin. I believe pastors are remiss in their responsibility to warn people of error in our churches and particularly certain heretical movements, like the WOF, that hide under the umbrella of Christianity.

 

[zrs6v4]

If WoF preaching sounds like evangelism to you, perhaps you need to listen to a different preacher.

I have heard more than I can count haha..... I meant evangelistic methods of expecting salvation in many churches are no different than what the WoF seems to be doing for expecting healing, thats all.

examples: just pray and believe God saved you VS just pray and God will heal you of cancer... whats the difference?

Tons: First, God never promises that everyone gets healed physically (on Earth. My argument is that God heals all Christians...some here, and some at Home), and it is not His will for all to be physically healed. Precisely the opposite is true of salvation. Second...our faith doesn't save us. God saves us. Third, there is nothing wrong with praying for healing. In fact, in most cases, we probably should. But the healing is up to God...and is not up to us to question, or (as WoF people do) to demand...as if God is Santa Claus or hired help.

1st- God never promises everyone will get healed spiritually either.
2nd- God has healed all born-again souls, which is what makes them a Christian and I agree physical healing can happen on earth and will ultimetly in heaven.
3rd- I dont see how it's God's "will" for everyone to be saved, or all would be saved right?
4th- Yes God saves us through faith, I agree
5th- I agree that we most definetly should pray for all good things, but my point was that nobody prays expecting God to heal like they do expecting Him to save. So again expecting God to heal doesnt seem any different than expecting Him to save and in either case would it not be an unmerited gift given through faith?

My points are backing the WoF by any means by the way, I personally think it is false teaching.

 

[Tom Butler]

Most of what I know about the WoF practices, their leaders do not tell them to pray for healing. They are instructed to command the sickness to leave, to rebuke the "spirit of cancer (or whatever)." They're supposed to speak words, which is better than just believing. At least that's what I've seen on TV, and we all know that what we see on TV has to be right.

 

[Marcia]

Healing according to WF is that you are becoming well through the power of your faith and power of your belief that you are well. You are not supposed to even say you are sick or feeling sick - this is negative confession. Only positive confession is good. So people are scared to say anything negative.

This is from New Thought, a non-Christian movement that taught/teaches similarly (Unity, Christian Science, Religious Science) - you receive what you believe, you affirm what you want as though you already have it, negative words attract negative events. This is also in the New Age.

 

[zrs6v4]

ahhh, thanks. I never quite fully grasped it, but out of interest I have watched Kenneth Coplin and Benny Hinn numerous times.

 

[rbell]

examples: just pray and believe God saved you VS just pray and God will heal you of cancer... whats the difference?
...God never promises everyone will get healed spiritually either.

Actually, God does promise that all those who call on Him will be healed spiritually:

Romans 10:13--"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

No such promise exists physically.

I dont see how it's God's "will" for everyone to be saved, or all would be saved right?

2 Peter 3:9-- "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

My points are backing the WoF by any means by the way, I personally think it is false teaching.

Glad to hear it. :thumbs:

 

[Amy.G]

Have you ever noticed that when WOF teachers speak of this faith that will move God to do what we want it only applies to selfish desires? If I have enough faith, I will not be sick, I will have lots of money, I will have expensive cars..........

Do you ever hear of them applying their doctrine to others? Why don't they preach that if we have enough faith world hunger could be eliminated, wars would end, disease would cease to exist? They say that God has to answer these prayers of faith, so why don't they pray for others the same way that they pray for themselves? Because it's a self-centered, man made doctrine from hell!

 

[ajg1959]

Have you ever noticed that when WOF teachers speak of this faith that will move God to do what we want it only applies to selfish desires? If I have enough faith, I will not be sick, I will have lots of money, I will have expensive cars..........

Do you ever hear of them applying their doctrine to others? Why don't they preach that if we have enough faith world hunger could be eliminated, wars would end, disease would cease to exist? They say that God has to answer these prayers of faith, so why don't they pray for others the same way that they pray for themselves? Because it's a self-centered, man made doctrine from hell!

Amen Amy,

Some of the ungodly teachings of the WoF include

1. Pride. The Bible has many warnings about pride, but WoF dont seem to heed the warnings. They teach that they are "children of the King" and are on an equal spiritual level with Jesus, essentially making themselves God. This is why they feel they can "command" things to bid their will. They think they have the power that Jesus had when He was walkiong the Earth.

2. Greed. Even though the Bible teaches us that coveting our neighbors possesions is a sin, and that we should store up our treasure in heaven, not earthly treasures, the WoF believe that God wants us all to be rich, and that if we arent then there is something wrong with our relationship with God.

3. God's sovereignty. The Bible teaches us that God's way are not our ways, and that God does things as He wills...but the WoF believe they can actually change the will of God simply by commanding God to give them "the desires of their hearts". They seem to think that God is here to serve them, instead of them being here to serve God.

These are just a few of the false teachings, there are many more that are in direct disobedience to the teachings of the Bible.

AJ

 

[Amy.G]

Some of the ungodly teachings of the WoF include

2. Greed.
AJ

Did you ever hear of a WOF "healer" walking the halls of a hospital laying hands on the sick?

Instead they charge a fee for their big healing productions done at some convention center or football stadium. It's sickening.

 

[ajg1959]

Did you ever hear of a WOF "healer" walking the halls of a hospital laying hands on the sick?

Instead they charge a fee for their big healing productions done at some convention center or football stadium. It's sickening.

I have asked many times to my wife, "why doesnt Benny Hinn go and clean out the childrens cancer ward"

They say that Hinn cant clean out the AIDS ward because of the adults lack of faith...ok....then why not the babies? They dont have a lack of faith.

AJ