Wordly music or Christian Lyrics?

[tinytim]

Nope, Baptist (or baptistic) churches do not have altars and we do not kneel at altars. Altars are places of sacrifice, and we have none to offer, Christ having taken care of that.

And if you note, I was referring to the worship style, not the music when I mentioned turning off the sound. If we imitate pagan worship per se, we do not do it. My church does not do sand painting, walk labyrinthes, etc, because of that issue.

Now, as to lyrics, they need to be clearly Christian, not something anyone who believes in a generic God could comfortably sing.

Many years ago a nice Buddhist lady was coming to church where I attended. She came with her husband. She was happy as long as we sang, or taught, or preached about morals or about some generic God. But when we got specific, about Jesus as the only way, she got offended. Good and offended. Offended enough to think about what was being taught, and get saved.

That would never have happened with generic God talk and Buddhist like services.

Ok, if I can get a post in sideways what with Deputydog trying to up his post count.. .

Let me say I agree with you to some extent.
That is one reason the song, Come Now is the time to worship is not one of my favorite.. If you look at the lyrics.. a Muslim could sing it..

Ok, back to the ranting and raving of deputydog.

 

[tinytim]

Book of Opinions 12:45 (Matt Wade Version)

"securityofficer2008 is wrong yesterday, and to day, and for ever."


(shall I post it 10 times? :laugh: )

There's the 2nd time

 

[tinytim]

Book of Opinions 12:45 (Matt Wade Version)

"securityofficer2008 is wrong yesterday, and to day, and for ever."


(shall I post it 10 times? :laugh: )

There's the 3rd time..
Come on, join in, this is fun.

 

[tinytim]

If you think that's a personal attack, then you need to grow some thicker skin. I said you were wrong, and you are on this issue. Call it anything you want, but you are still wrong.

Mock Scriptures? Hardly.

Report me all you want. Maybe I'll report you for your consistent spamming of the same post over and over again?

too late I just did... trolls! ARRGH

 

[padredurand]

Of course it does. If Christ is the same then His preference in the music that He wants to be worshipped with does not change.

But what is Christ's preference? We've seen the preferences of all the posters but so little in way of the BIBLE stating what God and Jesus prefer.

"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
John 4:24 NAS77
​

John Wesley ~ We should worship him with the truly spiritual worship of faith, love, and holiness, animating all our tempers, thoughts, words, and actions.

Adam Clarke ~ A man worships God in spirit, when, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, he brings all his affections, appetites, and desires to the throne of God; and he worships him in truth, when every purpose and passion of his heart, and when every act of his religious worship, is guided and regulated by the word of God.

 

[sag38]

According to Security Officer's reasoning we should not use a piano in the church service. Nor should we use a sound system. Nor should we have a steeple. Nor should we have music printed on a copier, etc. Jesus had none of these things so I guess we shouldn't either. In reality Security Officer is saying that music should reflect whatever Security Officer determines is of the Lord. The rest of us do not have the freedom to determine that. After all, the repeated use of this same scripture verse demands that we agree.

 

[DHK]

Go ahead and mock the Scriptures by placing a reference passage along with your name as the Version and us some of the same wording in Scripture to personally attack me because you have been reported.

You have been reported many times for personal attacks already. So tread lightly here. Ease up on your rhetoric, and debate like a gentleman.

I was posting the Scripture verse because it is not my words that are going to convict, but I will ask God to share the truth by only using His Word (the Bible). This is why I was posting this so many times. Guess what...Here it comes again!

You don't seem to have a good grasp of Scripture.
Have you considered all the cults around you--J.W.'s, Mormons, SDA's, etc., They all use the Word of God, and they use it extensively. For what purpose? To convict? No! To send people to Hell. If you believe what the J.W.'s believe you will not go to heaven you will go to hell, in spite of all the Scripture they use. That is a plain simple fact.

It is the Holy Spirit that convicts, and it is He that uses the Scripture to convict. Satan also uses the Bible. Always remember that.

Hebrews 13:8 (King James Version)

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

Quoting this Scripture does nothing to prove a point concerning the OP.
It says nothing about the music of the OT.
It says nothing about the music of the NT.
It says nothing about our music of today.
It says nothing about music in heaven.
It says nothing about music at all.

Remember that Satan quoted Scripture when tempting Christ in the wilderness. He took it out of context. Each time however Christ answered him with Scripture.

Scripture, not used properly can destroy the person using it.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--Taking Scripture out of its context, twisting it, trying to make it fit your own paradigms can lead "to your own destruction."

Be sure that what you say is backed up by Scripture that is taken properly in its context.
A machine gun indiscriminately firing in the air without aim, is a total waste of time and energy.

 

[SBCPreacher]

OK. I move that we vote this guy off the island! Is there a second?

 

[Jedi Knight]

"OK. I move that we vote this guy off the island! Is there a second?":laugh: Survivor!

 

[gekko]

all quotes taken from the original post.

Today we have worldly music with so called Christian lyrics.

ok. just asking for a couple examples here.
is that ok?

This movement started out small, but now has grown so that non-believers are now listening to it.

here - i get your point - in that if the non-believers can't tell if it's christian - then you have a problem with it. understandable.
but there's nothing wrong with non-believers listening to christian music.

Music that is Contemporary in style promotes the idea that you do not have to change when you get saved. However, my Bible says that we are to put off the old man. We are to change clothes, attitude, wants, etc. (spiritually speaking). When salvation takes place in the life of a person, that person should start to change their desires (including music).

quick question - just to help clarify things in my head here.
if i was listening to CCM - then salvation takes place - what style of music am i to listen to?

I am so sad to see Christians falling by the wayside because of the influence of Contemporary Christian music in their lives. I know someone right now (I will not give their name) that is far away from the Lord (smoking, cussing, dressing like the world, acting godless, etc.) and it all started with Christian Contemporary Music.

well - if it's true that it started with CCM - i would have to say that CCM was not the only cause for this.

of what you've heard of CCM, securityofficer, what has it influenced in your life?

It is a sad day when Christians say "I listen to CCM because I like it" instead of saying "I listen to this music because God likes it".

i would tend to agree with this statement.
then it leads to your definition of "music" - do you speak of the lyrics? or of the notes?

The truth is that they cannot say this because God does not like it when Christians have one foot in the world and one foot in the church. This is the Lukewarm church that is talked about in the book of Revelation. I honestly believe that CCM makes God sick because of the points described above.

well... we can't really speak for God can we.
using the verse "the same yesterday, today and forever" - won't cut it here - because then you have to explain and give an example of music from thousands of years ago.
which, unless you time travel, none of us have.

so in all honesty - we can't even say that God likes the music.
can't say God doesn't like it either.

so we're at a stand still to use what God's given us in scripture to figure it all out.

but we sure can't go anywhere near putting words in God's mouth as something being an absolute.

I believe that CCM is sending people to Hell because it uses emotions to convict instead of using the Holy Ghost. I think that many people believe that they are saved because they made some false profession that was hyped up on emotionalism. Do not think that I am against emotions (i.e. Jesus wept. John 11:35). However, when a group uses emotionalism through getting people hyped up at a "concert" to convict: I have a problem.

to a point - i would agree with you.
i agree that many have possibly made a false profession - because of something. who knows what.

the whole emotion thing - i dont think i agree with that.

do you not think that it is possible for the Holy Spirit to get to people through heightening their emotions at any given time?

--------------------

now. heh.
i've been saying "i would" or "i dont think"

looks like i'm just going by what's in my head.
which i probably am right now.

i'm just raising a few questions - asking for answers is all.
i hope they're legitimate questions and not ones that those of you against CCM will get mad at.

thanks for your time.

gek.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Thought it was kinda funny that some thought "Who am I" by Casting Crowns was inapropriate because it was about self when it come from the Psalms.

It isn't that it's bad, it's just that it's not worship. I think what a lot of people forget is that praise and worship are not the same thing.

 

[webdog]

It isn't that it's bad, it's just that it's not worship. I think what a lot of people forget is that praise and worship are not the same thing.

According to who...you?

 

[rbell]

Securityofficer...

If you were trying to make a point regarding modern music, you failed. You haven't managed to back any of your claims up Scripturally.

However, you have succeeded in showing that you are incapable of carrying on a debate in a mature manner. Just a friendly bit of advice: you're not helping your "cause" one bit.

Now...are you interested in discussion, or shall you continue with your temper tantrum?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

According to who...you?

Yes, my rude friend. According to me, according to the Biblical model, and according to the commonly accepted definitions of the words "praise" and worship.

 

[rbell]

Hebrews 13:8 (King James Version)

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

By the way...you've been reported for attacking me by calling me stupid.

Try reading more carefully.

I have not, nor have I ever, called you or anyone on this board "stupid."

Your point you made was completely devoid of reasoning. I was talking about your point being completely baseless. That was very plain and explicit in my post.

I cannot help the fact that you've come here looking (and wanting) to be offended. My experience has been that people who for some reason or another enjoy being offended, and live in that state...always manage to get their wish.

 

[webdog]

Yes, my rude friend. According to me, according to the Biblical model, and according to the commonly accepted definitions of the words "praise" and worship.

I'm rude? :laugh: Half of your posts come across in similar fashion. At least you admitted "yes" you define what worship is and that all of your views are shared by God. Congratulations on that!

Let's point out how wrong you are once again, though...

praise (pr

z)n.1. Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
2. The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
3. Archaic A reason for praise; merit.

tr.v. praised, prais·ing, prais·es 1. To express warm approbation of, commendation for, or admiration for.
2. To extol or exalt; worship

wor·ship (wûr

sh

p)n.1. a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
3. often

Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.

v. wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships
v.tr.1. To honor and love as a deity.
2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.

v.intr.1. To participate in religious rites of worship.
2. To perform an act of worship.

Wow...seems to be connected and intertwined in some way!

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I'm rude? :laugh: Half of your posts come across in similar fashion. At least you admitted "yes" you define what worship is and that all of your views are shared by God. Congratulations on that!

Let's point out how wrong you are once again, though...

praise (pr

z)n.1. Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
2. The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
3. Archaic A reason for praise; merit.

tr.v. praised, prais·ing, prais·es 1. To express warm approbation of, commendation for, or admiration for.
2. To extol or exalt; worship

wor·ship (wûr

sh

p)n.1. a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
3. often

Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.

v. wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships
v.tr.1. To honor and love as a deity.
2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.

v.intr.1. To participate in religious rites of worship.
2. To perform an act of worship.

Wow...seems to be connected and intertwined in some way!

I won't debate this with you because your snide comments that "God shares all of your views" just shows that you really have no intent but to put others down, but simply stated, worship is the adoration of God for His inherent qualities. Praise is thanksgiving for what He has done.

I guess the reason you see me as being wrong is that you're getting your definition from the dictionary and I'm getting mine from the Bible.

 

[webdog]

I won't debate this with you because your snide comments that "God shares all of your views" just shows that you really have no intent but to put others down, but simply stated, worship is the adoration of God for His inherent qualities. Praise is thanksgiving for what He has done.

I guess the reason you see me as being wrong is that you're getting your definition from the dictionary and I'm getting mine from the Bible.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Telling me I get my definitions from the dictionary while yours are divinely implanted into you from God is a putdown in itself. I simply posted the dictionary definitions to get it into your head that words have meanings, and they do not disagree with Scripture's understanding of these phrases. I'm real tired of the "my view is God's view" tone of your posts, hence the sarcasm.

 

[DHK]

According to who...you?

Praise and worship are not the same thing. He is correct.
Worship can encompass a variety of things, whereas praise is much more narrow. We worship God in our giving. But that is not praise. Only part of my prayer life is devoted to praise, not all of it. There is intercession, confession, petition, thanksgiving. If it were all praise, it would be a very shallow prayer life. Praise is only a small part of my prayer life, and a very small part of my worship.

 

[SBCPreacher]

I just noticed this: on the results of the poll, I don't see the originator of the poll anywhere. He didn't vote?? How odd...