Words have Meaning

[RipponRedeaux]

Now the truth, liberals redefine the meaning of words to conform text to their view, cannot be applied to those who redefine the inspired words of God. If it walks like a duck...

An example of the above is how you have redefined, or as they say today 'reimagined' Acts 13:48.

 

[Van]

SNIP.

Why post a vilification post, unless you are hypocritical. You have posted the same, I am holier than thou, post many times.
If I were in charge, every one of them would be deleted as off topic addressing the poster and not the topic violations of forum decorum.

We are saved through or by reason of faith, therefore we come to our faith based on God's revelation, before God chooses us for salvation. Only a liberal would attempt to redefine some many words in so many places...

 

[Van]

An example of the above is how you have redefined, or as they say today 'reimagined' Acts 13:48.

We are chosen through or by reason of faith. Deal with it, and stop your "must change the subject faster" efforts of obfuscation.

 

[Van]

I agree with the above statement. Theological liberals abound on the BB. Of course some who think others are liberals are themselves the errant ones.

Are you referring to the Calvinist who claimed "en" was not used to show instrumentality? Or the Calvinists who claim we are saved by grace through faith, but are saved and given faith. But I agree, liberals will redefine liberal such that it no longer applies to them...

 

[Van]

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

How did we become children of God? Through or by reason of faith in Christ Jesus.

Once again a liberal would rewrite the verse to say we became children of God and then were given faith. Not how it reads...

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Once again a liberal would rewrite the verse to say we became children of God and then were given faith. Not how it reads...

People who are unbelievers exemplified by those in 1 Cor. 1:18a and1 Cor. 2:14 do not have faith, do not have the Holy Spirit and are not in a saving union with Christ.

The elect are not born as children of God. They are unsaved, unregenerate etc. But when God grants faith to an individual, that person is made alive, the Holy Spirit is put inside. That person has become a Child of God.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Here the liberal says "en" (the Greek preposition) is not literally used to show instrumentality, with the meaning of "by means of" or by reason of. However, anyone who can read a lexicon knows that claim is false. The literal (positional) meaning is "in" but the literal instrumentality usage meaning is through or by means of or by reason of.

"of the instrument or means by or with which anything is accomplished, owing to the influence of the Hebrew preposition בְּ much more common in the sacred writers than in secular authors. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 48, a. 3 d.; Buttmann, 181 (157) and 329 (283f), where we say with, by means of, by (through);with the dative, where the simple dative of the instrument might have been used, especially in the Revelation..."of things relating to the soul, as ἐν ἁγιασμῷ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (Winer's Grammar, 417 (388));"​

Van, you should really stop posting these on Greek grammar, as you show you ignorance of it!

The primary use and meaning of the Greek preposition ἐν, is NOT "instrument or by means of"; but "IN". The correct preposition to show "by means of", the the genitive form of "διά". Like all prepositions in Greek, they can have varied uses. But, just because someone does not use ἐν, as "instrument", does NOT make them a liberal! You say, "However, anyone who can read a lexicon knows that claim is false", and then go on to quote from Geroge Winer's Greek Grammar. Do you know that there is a HUGE difference between a lecixon, and grammar? Also, read Winer again, and you will clearly see that he does NOT limit the use of ἐν, as you quote him to say! I have 3 of his Greek grammars, and do not agree with your statement.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Once again a liberal would rewrite the verse

what complete RUBBISH. WHAT has a "liberal" got to do with this?

 

[Van]

Van, you should really stop posting these on Greek grammar, as you show you ignorance of it!

The primary use and meaning of the Greek preposition ἐν, is NOT "instrument or by means of"; but "IN". The correct preposition to show "by means of", the the genitive form of "διά". Like all prepositions in Greek, they can have varied uses. But, just because someone does not use ἐν, as "instrument", does NOT make them a liberal! You say, "However, anyone who can read a lexicon knows that claim is false", and then go on to quote from Geroge Winer's Greek Grammar. Do you know that there is a HUGE difference between a lecixon, and grammar? Also, read Winer again, and you will clearly see that he does NOT limit the use of ἐν, as you quote him to say! I have 3 of his Greek grammars, and do not agree with your statement.

This post is absurd, false and insulting.

1) Did anyone say the "primary" of dia is instrumentality? Nope so an effort to create a strawman to knock down. What a joke.
2) Did anyone say "dia" could only be used to show instrumentality? Nope, so yet another strawman.
3) Does someone claiming "dia" is not used to show instrumentality a liberal? You bet, as it is an effort to redefine the word and alter its meaning.
4) I quoted a lexicon, which reference George Winer, so I was not claiming anything about grammar.
5) I did not "limit the use of "dia"- but a liberal Calvinist did.

 

[Van]

what complete RUBBISH. WHAT has a "liberal" got to do with this?

Now the liberal suggests my view is rubbish, which is consistent with liberals telling others how to think.

 

[Yeshua1]

Now the liberal suggests my view is rubbish, which is consistent with liberals telling others how to think.

The "liberals: here are most conservative in theology then you appear to be!

 

[Van]

The "liberals: here are most conservative in theology then you appear to be!

Falsehood after falsehood from the fount of falsehood. I am not the one saying "through faith" means "not through faith" but that is the Calvinist claim.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The "liberals: here are most conservative in theology then you appear to be!

You mean "than" you

 

[Yeshua1]

This post is absurd, false and insulting.

1) Did anyone say the "primary" of dia is instrumentality? Nope so an effort to create a strawman to knock down. What a joke.
2) Did anyone say "dia" could only be used to show instrumentality? Nope, so yet another strawman.
3) Does someone claiming "dia" is not used to show instrumentality a liberal? You bet, as it is an effort to redefine the word and alter its meaning.
4) I quoted a lexicon, which reference George Winer, so I was not claiming anything about grammar.
5) I did not "limit the use of "dia"- but a liberal Calvinist did.

there are no liberal Calvinists, and what reputable greek grammar agrees with your assertions here then?

 

[Van]

there are no liberal Calvinists, and what reputable greek grammar agrees with your assertions here then?

Falsehood followed by subject change. See the pattern folks, with not one Calvinist admitting "through faith" means by reason of your faith as credited by God.

Instead we get a blizzard of obfuscation posts. Count them up.

 

[Yeshua1]

Falsehood followed by subject change. See the pattern folks, with not one Calvinist admitting "through faith" means by reason of your faith as credited by God.

Instead we get a blizzard of obfuscation posts. Count them up.

So the answer to my question would be no reputable Greek grammar then?

 

[SavedByGrace]

So the answer to my question would be no reputable Greek grammar then?

the Greek grammar written by Van, with his own rules, that no one else agrees with! much like his theology!

 

[SavedByGrace]

I quoted a lexicon, which reference George Winer, so I was not claiming anything about grammar.

really, here is your quote

"of the instrument or means by or with which anything is accomplished, owing to the influence of the Hebrew preposition בְּ much more common in the sacred writers than in secular authors. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 48, a. 3 d.; Buttmann, 181 (157) and 329 (283f), where we say with, by means of, by (through);with the dative, where the simple dative of the instrument might have been used, especially in the Revelation..."of things relating to the soul, as ἐν ἁγιασμῷ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (Winer's Grammar, 417 (388));"

Both Philip Butmann and George Winer, are Greek GRAMMARS, and NOT lexicons! so WHO is the Greek lexicon that you refer to?

 

[Van]

really, here is your quote

"of the instrument or means by or with which anything is accomplished, owing to the influence of the Hebrew preposition בְּ much more common in the sacred writers than in secular authors. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 48, a. 3 d.; Buttmann, 181 (157) and 329 (283f), where we say with, by means of, by (through);with the dative, where the simple dative of the instrument might have been used, especially in the Revelation..."of things relating to the soul, as ἐν ἁγιασμῷ, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (Winer's Grammar, 417 (388));"

Both Philip Butmann and George Winer, are Greek GRAMMARS, and NOT lexicons! so WHO is the Greek lexicon that you refer to?

Off topic obfuscation post, devoid of any relevant discussion of the topic.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Off topic obfuscation post, devoid of any relevant discussion of the topic.

you have been caught out, yet again!!!