Would an Unregenerate Man Invent "Calvinism"?

[thatbrian]

The natural, unregenerate man, views mankind as unaffected by Adam's sin. He thinks himself able to climb a stairway to heaven (Tower of Babel, not Led Zeppelin) He imagines that his works are able to put himself in right standing before God (Cain), and he bristles at the idea that he needs assistance of any kind.

It isn't until through the careful study of scripture and/or the hearing of preaching and teaching, applied by the Holy Spirit, that men begin to see their utter weakness, spiritual bankruptcy, and need to be saved.

The question I pose is, would the 5 points of Calvinism come from the mind of an unregenerate man? Would an unsaved mind naturally develop and promote a system like that? And, on the flipside, would a Pelagian view come naturally to the unregenerated mind?

Which position represents the natural state of the unregenerated mind, and which stands in complete opposition to it?

 

[Don]

The natural, unregenerate man, views mankind as unaffected by Adam's sin. He thinks himself able to climb a stairway to heaven (Tower of Babel, not Led Zeppelin) He imagines that his works are able to put himself in right standing before God (Cain), and he bristles at the idea that he needs assistance of any kind.

It isn't until through the careful study of scripture and/or the hearing of preaching and teaching, applied by the Holy Spirit, that men begin to see their utter weakness, spiritual bankruptcy, and need to be saved.

The question I pose is, would the 5 points of Calvinism come from the mind of an unregenerate man? Would an unsaved mind naturally develop and promote a system like that? And, on the flipside, would a Pelagian view come naturally to the unregenerated mind?

Which position represents the natural state of the unregenerated mind, and which stands in complete opposition to it?

Not sure of your question. Are you asking if the pelagian position represents the natural state of the unregenerated mind, while the calvinist position stands in opposition (represents the state of a regenerated mind)?

 

[thatbrian]

Not sure of your question. Are you asking if the pelagian position represents the natural state of the unregenerated mind, while the calvinist position stands in opposition (represents the state of a regenerated mind)?

Yes. I am saying that the Pelagian perspective comes naturally. You would never have to be an apologist for the Pelagian view to an unbeliever. The natural mind does not object to the Pelagian view.

On the other hand, the natural mind (In unbelievers and believers) objects to what Paul espoused in Romans, and the views on this matter from Augustine, Luther, Calvin.

*I'm not saying that anyone with a Pelagian view is not a regenerated Christian. I'm saying that our minds are renewed over time, through God's Word, taught and studied.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes. I am saying that the Pelagian perspective comes naturally. You would never have to be an apologist for the Pelagian view to an unbeliever. The natural mind does not object to the Pelagian view.

On the other hand, the natural mind (In unbelievers and believers) objects to what Paul espoused in Romans, and the views on this matter from Augustine, Luther, Calvin.

*I'm not saying that anyone with a Pelagian view is not a regenerated Christian. I'm saying that our minds are renewed over time, through God's Word, taught and studied.

The lost would never think of calvinism, as that system honors and glorifies God and not ourselves!

 

[thatbrian]

The lost would never think of calvinism, as that system honors and glorifies God and not ourselves!

I agree, it does give all glory to God, and if that is the case, the opposite can be said of the opposit view.

 

[JonC]

I'm not sure as to why some Calvinists are not Christians, but Scripture teaches us that this is to be expected. If you are referring to matters of the will (man being the captain of his own fate, so to speak) then I don't see the purpose of this thread. Paganism is replete with unbelievers who would be both Calvinists and Pelagains, save for the gospel of Christ.

If you doubt me, just ask Oedipus.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm not sure as to why some Calvinists are not Christians, but Scripture teaches us that this is to be expected. If you are referring to matters of the will (man being the captain of his own fate, so to speak) then I don't see the purpose of this thread. Paganism is replete with unbelievers who would be both Calvinists and Pelagains, save for the gospel of Christ.

If you doubt me, just ask Oedipus.

Think the point of the OP is that natural sinners would not think up a salvation system that gives God all the glory, as they would want to make sure we saved ourselves!

 

[utilyan]

The pharisees believed themselves God chosen and give all credit to God.

11“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.


I love how Calvinist just brag about how they are just so much more humble then everyone else.

 

[Revmitchell]

Think the point of the OP is that natural sinners would not think up a salvation system that gives God all the glory, as they would want to make sure we saved ourselves!

I want to congratulate you on moving the point of the op from its original juvenile place to this reasonable explanation. The truth is man will always work to save himself on his own terms. Neither Calvinism nor any other understanding of soteriology tries to do that.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Unregenerate man came up with Manichaism, which is strangely similar in some respect to Calvinism:

Examining Calvinism: Augustine, Manichaeism and the Good

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The pharisees believed themselves God chosen and give all credit to God.

11“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.


I love how Calvinist just brag about how they are just so much more humble then everyone else.

That’s called Lordship Salvation.

 

[InTheLight]

I agree, it does give all glory to God, and if that is the case, the opposite can be said of the opposit view.

Another fallacy. If you think you will be able to post that non-Calvinists don't give all glory to God then your days are numbered here on BB.

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