Zaac
Well-Known Member
I know Iconoclast. I'll have to listen to some of his stuff. If nothing else after listening, I can pray for him and the family.
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Would Paul Washer Be Welcome to Speak at Your Local Church
- Thread starter saturneptune
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I know Iconoclast. I'll have to listen to some of his stuff. If nothing else after listening, I can pray for him and the family.
Zaac,
i do not see that idea in scripture; Instead this-1 cor 5
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
These Paul described as "called a brother"...he does not say they are a brother....vs 13 instructs and describes them...put away that wicked person
see it....
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Paul's thorn in the flesh was not sin...it was physical....most likely poor eyesight.
regeneration is a point in time...sanctification is a process
saturneptune
New Member
Now that I agree with, he should be prayed for, whether saved or not, which we do not know. One thing I do know, the status of this man has nothing to do with the character of Paul Washer.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Help me here Iconoclast. Because Scripture also says 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10
Doesn't that make us all guilty of the same thing?
Okay. Then in the sanctification process, does that not leave room for strongholds? Yes you are a new creation. But that new creation continues to sin. I'd say the average Christian lied before he was saved and has lied since being saved. Does that make such a sinner any less covered in the righteousness of Christ?
Thousand Hills
Active Member
SN, your kind of like a guy that shows up at a pizza buffet place when they start to bring the first pizzas out. The first one you see is a pepperoni pizza, but you hate pepperoni. So you walk out the door and leave, you don't wait around to see what else they bring out.
I get that you didn't think PW's preaching at your church was profitable. I can understand that to some people he can come across as arrogant. Here he says it in his own words:
Here is a snippet of a PW sermon on marriage, just teaching about personal responsibility in the marriage. The subject is different and so is his tone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoQEljfJEcc&list=PLE8DA126672E39F6D&index=11
Thousand Hills
Active Member
Where do you differ? On the family integrated, or something else?
I think he does make it over near Finland from time to time. :laugh::laugh:
Just joking with you Harald.
Zaac
We are commanded to mortify,ie, put to death or, deprive of power these sinful impulses....
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
The new creation does not continue to practice sin.[habitually]
We are still able to sin and we do, we are not brought under it's reigning power however.....we are free to serve God, not sin.
I see no reason for this to be in a christians life???lying??/
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Zaac...no...James is addressing the idea of a person who thinks they can keep the law to be saved.Only Jesus could keep the law perfectly,and it is His active obedience that is accounted to us who trust him.
No it does not.....it does leave room for sin however. In other words we are still in a body of flesh with the motions of sin[sinful impulses} to deal with.
We are commanded to mortify,ie, put to death or, deprive of power these sinful impulses....
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
The new creation does not continue to practice sin.[habitually]
We are still able to sin and we do, we are not brought under it's reigning power however.....we are free to serve God, not sin.
.
I see no reason for this to be in a christians life???lying??/
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
A dis obedient christian will be chastised by God so he is not judged with the world;
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
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here is the lunatic anderson in action spewing forth ungodly filth;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aTrF7MCoY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aTrF7MCoY4
He would be a perfect debate candidate for White or Mc mannon.
Brother....
....please excuse the pun, but it sounds like some of you folks are about to "Wash" your hands of this guy! Sorry....but I always felt a little levity helps to tone down the emotion! :wavey:
....please excuse the pun, but it sounds like some of you folks are about to "Wash" your hands of this guy! Sorry....but I always felt a little levity helps to tone down the emotion! :wavey:
That sounded like a good and scripturally based sermon to me. God is HOLY.
Lunatics of a feather
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Or maybe I've got exactly what the Father wants me to have, has placed me in a wonderful church where I can serve Him, and have a men's ministry partner of like mind, have an absolutely beautiful godly wife with seven great kids between us, as well as four wonderful grandkiddos, I know God uses me as He sees fit, and I actually have a life and a career outside of this board.
Anything's possible.
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saturneptune said:
Could you please cite the part where he says "through your own effort"? Because everything I've ever heard him say about mortification is consistent with Romans 8:13, which is that we are to put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit.
Could you please explain how he does this?
I'm sorry, but I have to call you out on this. You've been slandering him for several pages with not one iota of evidence.
I'm sorry to say this, but you are a liar. I'm hoping you'll repent and reconsider your behavior.
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Would Paul Washer be welcomed at the church I attend? I really don't know, but I think he would. I have no problem with him as I have never heard him preach anything unbiblical. He is not a Pastor, but an evangelist. He comes and speaks things that many Pastors are afraid to say. He calls for repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ which is seldom spoken of in most churches today. If your salvation and faith cannot stand being questioned then it probably is not real. Most Pastors tell you just to believe, confess your sin, and pray a prayer asking Jesus into your heart. The problem is no one ever got saved like that. Without repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus there is no salvation.
As to those who would not be welcomed I would guess that most the Prophets of old would not be welcomed in today's churches just like they were not welcome in days past. Even Christ Himself would not fit in with most congregations today as He called people snakes, dogs, and hypocrites.
As to those who would not be welcomed I would guess that most the Prophets of old would not be welcomed in today's churches just like they were not welcome in days past. Even Christ Himself would not fit in with most congregations today as He called people snakes, dogs, and hypocrites.
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You have been displaying the very things you condemn.
Aside from your favorite themes of folks stuffing themseves at church socials and going on ad nauseum about how many years you were in the Presbyterian church and then the Bapists, you glory in condemning gossip. Well you are engaging in plenty of it in this thread. That's rank hypocrisy.
Even before this current disgraceful thread of yours you enjoyed bad-mouthing Mr. Washer.
You have said :"Loud mouth charlatans like Paul Washer."
You have related that :"His sermons are a circus side show,and he is a disgrace."
You have publically told the BB:"Paul Washer is the last example I would use as an instrument of spreading the gospel."
Now after exhibiting all this sinfulness of yours for the public to see --do you stand in greater condemnation than any shortcomings PW may have?
I guess you are then. You have told me and several others on the BB that we are worthless ___. You need to see what you are before you foul the air here.
Nailed it :thumbsup:
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Washer claims regeneration comes before faith. As a Calvinist, he should know what John Calvin said:
Some have said they are teaching that a person must be born again before he or she believes in Jesus. They would teach that God’s life must precede faith since they teach that spiritually dead people (totally depraved people) cannot exercise saving faith. Some would refer to this as "total inability," and they believe the lost sinner is as dead as a corpse in a mortician’s morgue –- can’t see, hear, breathe, or respond. Therefore, holding to this position requires the spiritually dead person to be completely unable to respond to God similar to dead and decaying Lazarus coming forth from a tomb after experiencing new life at the command and call of Jesus.
Ironically, it is the reformers who came after the Synod of Dort who first postulated that the reverse of Calvin's order was correct. All that does is prove that many of Calvin's followers altered what Calvin taught, just as they do today and still insist on calling "Calvinism."
Some Calvinists believe regeneration precedes faith and devotedly defend this premise. In fact, they would reverse Calvin’s "order of salvation" (ordo salutis) by placing regeneration first in this order.
Some have said they are teaching that a person must be born again before he or she believes in Jesus. They would teach that God’s life must precede faith since they teach that spiritually dead people (totally depraved people) cannot exercise saving faith. Some would refer to this as "total inability," and they believe the lost sinner is as dead as a corpse in a mortician’s morgue –- can’t see, hear, breathe, or respond. Therefore, holding to this position requires the spiritually dead person to be completely unable to respond to God similar to dead and decaying Lazarus coming forth from a tomb after experiencing new life at the command and call of Jesus.
Ironically, it is the reformers who came after the Synod of Dort who first postulated that the reverse of Calvin's order was correct. All that does is prove that many of Calvin's followers altered what Calvin taught, just as they do today and still insist on calling "Calvinism."
Jacob_Elliott
New Member
Wow this has really taken off since I gave my 2 cents, I apologize for the delayed response. Yeah, it's a bad/sad situation. But :godisgood:
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