reformation is not salvation...
Yes ..he was carnal in the heart and needed to repent and be saved ...
No Godly pastor would assure this man he was a christian while he practiced this sin ...
Your statement is unbiblical...completely unbiblical ...
You have no basis in scripture to say he was saved as he was bound by this sin ...
nonsense..
This again is unbiblical nonsense...where do you find this stronghold IDEA? ...
Oh the antinomian carnal christian heresy from dispensational roots...it is clear now:thumbs: ...
This idea as expressed is nonsense.
This is the most unbiblical, uncharitable, ungodly collection of drivel with absolutely no Scriptural backing I've ever seen collected in one place. The few verses you did use are misapplied and misinterpreted. Anyone who teaches that a Christian cannot persistently sin, and therefore one who does sin persistently is not a Christian, is sowing the seeds of Satan's deception, not the grace, mercy and justice of God.
We live in bodies, and with hearts and minds that, if exposed to sin can easily be brought into bondage to those sins. Different people have different social, environmental, and mental predispositions to addiction. For some it is alcohol, for others it is pornography or nicotine, for yet others it is homosexual lust. So prone are we to sinful addictions that we can turn otherwise good things into bondage, things like chocolate or success in the workplace. So, yes, Christians, like everyone else, can become addicted. As Jeremiah wrote:
Jeremiah 17, (NASB)
9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
Let me point out here, however, that when we ask “Can certain people be addicted?” we run the risk of greatly misunderstanding the nature of sin. According to the Bible, not only can sin lead to addiction but it always does. Not only might we fall into addiction to sin, we have
all done so. Jesus Himself said:
John 8
34 ... "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
It is not that every sin leads to an automatic addiction to that sin –- although the potential for this ought to fill us with dread. The point is that sinners are addicted not just to this sin or that, but to sin itself.
If you think that is not true, then I invite you simply to stop sinning. But of course, you can’t. In fact, the more you try not to sin, the more you will sin. This was the experience of one famous addict to sin, the apostle Paul.
Romans 7
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
Once a person becomes a believer, the Holy Spirit begins to work in his life to convict him of those things that are unpleasing to God. The natural response to the saving work of Christ is to rid one's life of anything that brings displeasure to the Father.
This is a process, sometimes a long one. This is called "progressive sanctification," which some of you find unbiblical. Simply more proof you don't study God's word, but merely parrot people who don't know what they're talking about. Some denominations claim that if you don't clean your life of sin completely, upon salvation, then your salvation wasn't real. Sound familiar? This is simply not true. In the passage above, Paul is saying that even though he has accepted Christ and is actively serving Him, he still battles with his flesh. We are called as believers to trample on that flesh and die to it daily. However, we will fail at times. Fortunately, God gave Paul an answer for that, as well:
Romans 8
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
That is no excuse to sin!
Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Note that Paul
never says that our salvation is in question because of our sin, but instead that our salvation
delivers us from that sin. Anyone who would preach persistent sin negates our salvation experience ...
... well, he will have a lot to answer for to Christ Jesus the Lord at the Bema Seat. Clearly, we will fail. But we are to grow from the experience, not live in it, constantly relying on God's grace to forgive. But nonetheless,
we who have been saved have that grace of God's forgiveness upon which to fall when we do fail.
It is vital to our growth as believers to gain control over these life-debilitating issues. We may need outside help. That's why millions of Christians every year see people like me. It is why Christian counselors have a burgeoning practice helping heal marriages. It's all right! Seeking help through a trusted pastor, Christian counselor, or believing friend who will hold us accountable is biblical, and that fact alone should instruct you that you are dead wrong in denying the salvation of one who is a Christian and yet entrenched in sin. That is a foolish, arrogant viewpoint. As Paul again wrote:
2 Corinthians 10
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
4 for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. [Note: "fortresses" can also be translated "strongholds"]
5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
6 and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete.
Satan uses addictions to show us that we are unworthy and that God can't help us. People shouldn't listen to his lies, or yours when you try to tell them their addiction, adultery, continued lying, stealing, gossiping, etc., means they are not saved. They need to recognize that a new identity in Christ is that of a "Child of God." Focusing on building that identity and setting aside the old one -- the alcoholic, the gambler, the liar, or whatever the addiction may be, is biblical, true and necessary. People may continue to struggle. That just may be the way that God wants to work in their lives on a continual basis. The protocol is to simply keep turning it over to Him.
People like you have been around a long time, back to the days of Paul.
Philippians 1
15 Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will;
16 the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;
17 the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment.
That selfish ambition doesn't have to be for monetary gain. Often, it is just the smug, self-satisfied opinion one develops of one's self when one thinks one is better than anyone else. Thankfully, the ones you would hinder can depend, not on you and your ilk, but on Christ, as is stated just before the above Philippians passage.
Philippians 1
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Done here. The atmosphere on this thread grows too rarefied and haughty for my taste.
