Would two sinners marrying, be considered sinning?

[convicted1]

If "Leroy" and "Bertha", who neither had been married before, are married before a God called minister, would that be constituted as a sin?

And when they consummated their marriage with each other, in the confines of the marriage bed, is that a sin, too?

 

[Aaron]

Where are you going with this? You going to try to sneak a fact in later that both are the same gender? That's what it sounds like, so that's how I'll respond.

It's not marriage.

 

[convicted1]

Where are you going with this? You going to try to sneak a fact in later that both are the same gender? That's what it sounds like, so that's how I'll respond.

It's not marriage.

No. I hear that everything a sinner does is sin. If so, then marrying is a sin, and consummating it, in the confines of the marriage bed, would be, too.


I could be wrong on this.....don't think so, but if I am, I want to be shown so, via the bible, and not via creeds, confessions, Calvin, Clarke, CHS, Tozer....etc.


Anything other than male and female is NOT a marriage, regardless what anyone says.

 

[Zaac]

If "Leroy" and "Bertha", who neither had been married before, are married before a God called minister, would that be constituted as a sin?

And when they consummated their marriage with each other, in the confines of the marriage bed, is that a sin, too?

Have two non-sinners, outside of Adam and Eve at the time of their union, ever been married?

 

[convicted1]

Have two non-sinners, outside of Adam and Eve at the time of their union, ever been married?

Yes....... Why did you ask this question?

 

[Iconoclast]

No. I hear that everything a sinner does is sin. If so, then marrying is a sin, and consummating it, in the confines of the marriage bed, would be, too.


I could be wrong on this.....don't think so, but if I am, I want to be shown so, via the bible, and not via creeds, confessions, Calvin, Clarke, CHS, Tozer....etc.


Anything other than male and female is NOT a marriage, regardless what anyone says.

it is a good thing that sinners marry...so that they do not fornicate.1thess4:3
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

No. I hear that everything a sinner does is sin.

You mis-heard it Willis to some extent.
Every thing not done to God's glory is sin in that it will fall short having a selfish motive. thats why-
4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

 

[just-want-peace]

No. I hear that everything a sinner does is sin. If so, then marrying is a sin, and consummating it, in the confines of the marriage bed, would be, too.


I could be wrong on this.....don't think so, but if I am, I want to be shown so, via the bible, and not via creeds, confessions, Calvin, Clarke, CHS, Tozer....etc.


Anything other than male and female is NOT a marriage, regardless what anyone says.

Re your first statement this post - you might want to narrow what you really mean, as this is one whale of a blanket statement!

 

[convicted1]

it is a good thing that sinners marry...so that they do not fornicate.1thess4:3
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

Agreed! :thumbs::thumbs:

You mis-heard it Willis to some extent.
Every thing not done to God's glory is sin in that it will fall short having a selfish motive. thats why-
4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Well Brother, I have read on here where someone finds a wallet, returns it to it's rightful owner, and that's still a sin(iow, they did the right thing, and still sinned). I keep hearing that everything a sinner does is sin, seeing that whatsoever they did/do, comes from that corrupted heart. That being said, even a married couple(both sinners) that "sleeps" together in their marriage bed would be a sin, seeing they have corrupted hearts. This is where I think the teachings of some one here leads to.

I am NOT saying they are sinning by doing this, but showing where this doctrine can lead to.

 

[12strings]

Where are you going with this? You going to try to sneak a fact in later that both are the same gender? That's what it sounds like, so that's how I'll respond.

It's not marriage.

I think you missed the point of the thread.

 

[convicted1]

I think you missed the point of the thread.

Thank you....:thumbs::thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup:

 

[12strings]

No. I hear that everything a sinner does is sin. If so, then marrying is a sin, and consummating it, in the confines of the marriage bed, would be, too.

I could be wrong on this.....don't think so, but if I am, I want to be shown so, via the bible, and not via creeds, confessions, Calvin, Clarke, CHS, Tozer....etc.

Anything other than male and female is NOT a marriage, regardless what anyone says.

I will basically agree that ALL of what a non-believer does is in some way, sinful...based on the following:
"Whatever is not of faith is sin."
"Do all to the glory of God."
"Love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul, mind & strength."

So...unbelievers are breaking the last 2 commands constantly (and in fact I would argue that even believers break them much of the time) ...such that their returning of a lost wallet, or getting married to another non-believer for the purpose of establishing a household, is not in itself a sinful act, but they are sinning WHILE they do them...since they are at the same time breaking some of God's commands.

So for me, the answer would be the same as if I (a Christian) were being completely faithful to my wife in the marraige bed, while at the same time hiding 20,000 dollars under the bed that I stole from the church.

However, I believe that Marriage is a good thing, even for unbelievers, such that I (an ordained minister) would marry 2 non-believers if they agreed to counseling in which I could share the Gospel. Here's John Piper's take on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q54s6YKBCYs

 

[convicted1]

I will basically agree that ALL of what a non-believer does is in some way, sinful...based on the following:
"Whatever is not of faith is sin."
"Do all to the glory of God."
"Love the Lord your God with all you heart, soul, mind & strength."

I don't disagree with you with these passages. But is returning a wallet as sinful act? God sees us as saints or sinners, and nothing in between. Returning a wallet is a "good" deed, but will not be meritious to us in a saving fashion. It's not accounted to us in any positive way(if we were the sinner that had did this), and we're still condemned sinners w/o Christ. I'm just saying that doing a good thing isn't necessarily a sinful act.

So...unbelievers are breaking the last 2 commands constantly (and in fact I would argue that even believers break them much of the time) ...such that their returning of a lost wallet, or getting married to another non-believer for the purpose of establishing a household, is not in itself a sinful act, but they are sinning WHILE they do them...since they are at the same time breaking some of God's commands.

Now I can, and do, agree with your assessment here..:thumbs:

So for me, the answer would be the same as if I (a Christian) were being completely faithful to my wife in the marraige bed, while at the same time hiding 20,000 dollars under the bed that I stole from the church.

Agreed. :thumbs:

However, I believe that Marriage is a good thing, even for unbelievers, such that I (an ordained minister) would marry 2 non-believers if they agreed to counseling in which I could share the Gospel. Here's John Piper's take on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q54s6YKBCYs

Agreed. :thumbs:

 

[12strings]

I don't disagree with you with these passages. But is returning a wallet as sinful act? God sees us as saints or sinners, and nothing in between. Returning a wallet is a "good" deed, but will not be meritious to us in a saving fashion. It's not accounted to us in any positive way(if we were the sinner that had did this), and we're still condemned sinners w/o Christ. I'm just saying that doing a good thing isn't necessarily a sinful act.

Now I can, and do, agree with your assessment here..:thumbs:

Agreed. :thumbs:

Agreed. :thumbs:

I Think you're confused...this is the DEBATE forum...that means you have to DISAGREE with the one's you are debating...Don't worry, though, you'll get it eventually.

 

[Herald]

If "Leroy" and "Bertha", who neither had been married before, are married before a God called minister, would that be constituted as a sin?

And when they consummated their marriage with each other, in the confines of the marriage bed, is that a sin, too?

A lawful marriage between a man and woman is not sinful. There is a categorical difference between being in a state of sin and committing sins. A good deed done by an unbeliever is still done while in a state of unbelief. There is no spiritual benefit for that good deed; although marriage presents benefits that are common to all who enter into that covenant.

 

[DHK]

If "Leroy" and "Bertha", who neither had been married before, are married before a God called minister, would that be constituted as a sin?

And when they consummated their marriage with each other, in the confines of the marriage bed, is that a sin, too?

Define marriage a little better. There are some "ministers" that are not ordained, or are not licensed by the state to perform a marriage.
If a marriage by today's standard are the vows that unite a man to a woman and those vows are taken in the presence of both man and God according to the laws of the country, then it is possible that the marriage could be constituted as a sin.
But, like Aaron, I am not sure what the purpose of your post was.

 

[Winman]

Returning a lost wallet is not sin, but if a person is filled with pride because they returned a wallet, that pride is sin.

This is what Pro 21:4 is speaking about, pride. It says a high look, a proud heart, and the ploughing of the wicked is sin. It is not wrong to plough, the scriptures tell a man to work hard and plough his field, and warn against sloth. But if all a man's labor is to prove to himself he is better than others, then it is sin.

And many folks labor hard to become rich for this very reason, so they can have a huge home, fancy cars, go on expensive vacations, etc... It is an attempt to prove to others thay are better or smarter than them. This is sin, and this is what Prov 21:4 is speaking about.

Now, this man may have obtained his wealth through honest and diligent work, there is nothing sinful about that, but his pride is what is sin. And if he is working hard simply to convince himself he is better than others, that is sin.

But that doesn't mean this same man might do good for good reasons. He might use his wealth to help a poor person out of true love and concern. That would not be sin.

You can't read into scripture, Proverbs 21:4 is specifically dealing with the issue of pride. It is not saying that every single thing a man does is evil. It is not speaking of all men as well, this same proverb speaks of righteous persons.

Pro 21:18 The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright.

Prov 21:4 is not saying all men are wicked. This same proverb contrasts wicked and righteous persons.

 

[Aaron]

I think you missed the point of the thread.

You gotta admit the wording in the OP was—well—pretty queer.

 

[Aaron]

No. I hear that everything a sinner does is sin. If so, then marrying is a sin, and consummating it, in the confines of the marriage bed, would be, too.

Marriage is honorable in all. Marriage is on the earth and for the earth. So, of course, one who marries and abides by a marriage is doing good on earth, and on earth is worthy of praise.

However, sin is present with you in everything you do, corrupting it, and, from the point of view of heaven, rendering your best righteousness on earth a menstrum-stained, stinking rag worthy only of fire.

 

[MB]

If "Leroy" and "Bertha", who neither had been married before, are married before a God called minister, would that be constituted as a sin?

And when they consummated their marriage with each other, in the confines of the marriage bed, is that a sin, too?

Not everything a sinner does is sin. Simply because some sinners, (not all) mind you do obey civil law and that includes most of God's Law so obeying the Law is not sin. Marriage is also a Law but we are advised we should not be unequally yoked. Who else but a sinner would be equally yoked with a sinner. I believe that word "yoked" is a wonderful way of saying things have to work together or they will pull apart.
Paul wrote;
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Though darkness can have communion with darkness
MB

 

[convicted1]

I Think you're confused...this is the DEBATE forum...that means you have to DISAGREE with the one's you are debating...Don't worry, though, you'll get it eventually.

Oopsy......I must be a slooooow learner....I'll try to keep up better......LOL