You sure do. You always seem to come up with a version that is at odds with orthodoxy. For example, you do not believe in calling the various actions that occur in the Scriptures "sacraments".
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- Thread starter Davyboy
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You sure do. You always seem to come up with a version that is at odds with orthodoxy. For example, you do not believe in calling the various actions that occur in the Scriptures "sacraments".
And we cannot forget the visual method of preaching, you know all those beautiful stained glass windows that are in every orthodox Christian church in Europe. As you say, even in the middle ages there were few who could read and write.
You do not prove your assertion to be true. Do you establish your own subjective rules for a debate? A question can be invalid and can be based on fallacies. One way in a debate to show that a question is invalid would be to apply the question justly back to the claims of the person who asked the question.
Asking questions that assume as true premises that are not proven to be true can be a way of a person dodging and evading their own burden of proof to back up their own claims and opinions. Questions do not establish truth. Questions are neither true nor false. Instead of making statements that can be evaluated to be either true or false, some posters may try to hide behind questions as they dodge their own burden of proof to prove their own claims to be true. Are you willing to demonstrate that the underlying premises or assumptions behind your questions are true?
It would not be a fair and just debate for one person to ask questions and demand answers while not answering any questions and not proving their questions to be sound and valid by showing that the premises behind the questions are true.
Myself, Adonia and Walter agree with this. I thought that would be obvious. And there hasn't been a post that proved anything from the other posters. Questions answered on our part. We are playing on the same team. For example, We are the NFC vs all the other teams in the league and every member replying to this thread are on completely different teams in the league. That's because Logos 1560, Yeshua1, and steaver do not agree on anything. Different opinions on different doctrine.
Now back to topic.
Still waiting.
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What a joke. You were handed PRE-SELECTION of books. You didn't pick out the manuscripts yourself.
Tell me what differ manuscripts you went over? Gospel of Thomas? How did you even figure revelations?
Again the challenge remains. You can't even name the books without a cheat sheet or it being taught to you.
And in a library full of forgeries, fakes, your not going to pick out the exact 66 books picked out.
What page do you even start that says Christianity starts with reading a page at all!?
The logic is nonsense. You are on the outside coming in and you already begin with false premise of things required to be written down.
What list of books were written down and by whom? who even brought up you need a book?
These things point to the real deal, THE REAL AUTHORITY.
Really? Are you seriously claiming that your limited, subjective experience is proof concerning objective truth?
You fail to demonstrate that subjective experience is objective, verifiable proof.
The Books that you want to be carved out of the Canon were all recognized by the early church, especially the Apsotles, as being from and of God. The Book of Acts was done by Luke , who was the inspired author of the Gospel also, correct?
Paul was the Apostle of God towards the Gentiles, which even Peter recognized!
Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Isaiah 55
“For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven
and do not return there but water the earth,
making it bring forth and sprout,
giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth;
it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose,
and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
THE WORD IS THE FINAL AUTHORITY
Indeed. Word = Writing? NO.
This just proves you do not understand the essence of Who Christ is and the mysteries of the Word becoming Flesh.
Yes, that is correct. Word = Writing? Nope
In all four verses you provided, there were no demand that I prove any doctrine from the Bible alone.
John 5:39 –When Jesus said, “search the Scriptures,” He was rebuking the Jews who did not believe that He was the Messiah. Jesus tells them to search the Scriptures to verify the Messianic prophecies and His oral teaching, and does not say “search the Scriptures alone.” (nor was it a command for all to read the scriptures) Moreover, since the New Testament was not yet written, the passage is not relevant to the Protestant claim of sola Scriptura.
Matthew. 28:20 – “observe ALL I have commanded,” but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture. So there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe. This disproves “Bible alone” theology.
If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)?
If the early Church believed in sola Scriptura, why do the creeds of the early Church always say “we believe in the Holy Catholic Church,” and not “we believe in Holy Scripture”?
The church is the pillar and ground/foundation OF the Truth--IT HOLDS UP THE WORD OF GOD--the Scriptures--Christ being the Word in Flesh.
The Written Word of God--backed up by the Word of God in Heaven--is the Church's authority. we cannot say or command anything in our own authority, but we appeal to the Word of God, The Highest Authority.
Jesus is the living word of God made flesh, and the bible is the mind of God pnned down to us in ways we could understand him!
It's very clear, the RCC purposely undermines God's authority Given to His Word--they will never say Scripture is the Very Word of God because they want the preeminence. They want the authority.
Salvation per God is found in jesus alone, thru the Scriptures alone, but Rome vests salvation within itself!
That's right--They exalt themselves as God --they believe salvation belongs to them--being a member of their governing body.
So Jesus became a book? Then call the bible God.
Communication happens with various mediums no where does scripture give writing supremacy.
It says scripture is profitable, that means helpful for teaching. Never says scripture IS teaching.
Scripture contains no independence to convey meaning. And if you don't believe me try to read a Chinese bible, You will always rely on a person to explain the meaning, figures of speech, and interpretations.
This should be painfully obvious by how we disagree on meaning of scripture.
For example when we read:
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
There are folks who swear it means:
24You see that a man is justified by faith alone and not by works.
Even you say WORD = WRITING ONLY. The AUTHORITY over your shoulder insists WORD = WRITINGS ONLY.
2 Thessalonians 2
15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Best example of that WORD OF MOUTH is the Canon of Scripture.
Finally there is only one final authority GOD ALMIGHTY. Worship of a book is idolatry.
Worship of a book is idolatry.The Scriptures reveal God Himself--whom we worship. The Church is the Pillar and ground of the Truth--Exalting Christ through the Scriptures--the Truth, God's Word.
the Church is the Body of Christ--we are not the head--Christ is the Head. The Scriptures are our authority because they are the Word of God. The Word of God became flesh. God's Very Word became Flesh. The Same Word that Spoke Creation into existence and set forth things in order--became flesh.
Well when you say church you mean something separate from Jesus. I do not.
"The Same Word that Spoke Creation into existence"
You sure he didn't write it?
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