That is mean and uncalled for.
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Would your church permit a transgender to join?
- Thread starter righteousdude2
- Start date
That is mean and uncalled for.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Oh! to live in the olden times where there was no such things as transgender's .
Is that the sin then that the blood of Jesus is unable to wash and cleanse?
It is indeed though a tough case, as while the person could be saved by the grace of God, wouldn't they also have to repent and change their views regarding if they were really male or female then?
What do we want people to change their minds about? Being male or female?
Would you tell a person born with one brown eye and one blue eye that is a sin, and they need to choose?
I've lived where dealing with transgenders is a medical specialty, and been part of a good church that ministered to them.
Here are a few things I've found: to someone who truly suffers a medical defect, this is a very difficult thing to deal with. They should be receiving extensive psychological treatment and evaluation long before any surgery. During that time, many express they always "felt like a man in a woman's body" or "felt like a woman in a man's body." At that point in addition to the psych eval, a thorough medical including dna testing of various sites on the body should be ordered. At that point some of these people learn they are not xx or xy. Some do not. Doesn't mean they are not chimeras, however, as that can be very hard to detect. Can't test every single cell in their bodies.
Some will NOT find confirmation through dna, through mri's, or through any other physical testing. During the time of psych eval and treatment, some will come to realize they are just a slightly built normal male that loves opera or a muscular woman who loves being a lumberjack. For those, strict gender roles in society led them to believe something was "wrong" with them for just being who God made them. They drop out of the program.
Others will figure out, with help, that they have suffered some sort of psycho-sexual trauma. They get treatment for their ways of coping and find they do not want surgery, but are happily male or female.
After all of this, those with a detectable medical defect and SOME of those without will still be convinced there is some sort of problem. Some sort of "male brain/female body" or vice versa and still want the surgery.
At that point they need to live for a year as the gender they want to become. Some will immediately dress, act, and present as the new gender. Others will take months or years to transition before finally living a full year as the new identity.
If they do that, continuing psych evals, they get the surgery.
And of course, those with genetic disorders usually just get a faster track to surgery. Even for them, some time of psych care and trying out living the new gender is recommended.
All this is pretty daunting to those just wanting attention or making a political statement. They tend to wash out very early in the program. Either they self select out or they wash out due to poor psych evaluations.
Let me state I believe it will always be sin for a male to be with a male, or female with a female. This doesn't change that. Only in rare occasions such as a need for camouflage during war do I believe it not a sin for a woman to present and live as a man or a man as a woman. This doesn't change THAT either.
But--here is a biggie: only a person, God, the person's dr, and their mental health professional may be able to determine who is male and who is female when there is malfunction.
Certainly not the job of the local Baptist church to pronounce someone "male" who feels female and does not have xy dna, or has a genetic analomy, or who presents as xy BUT also has some female plumbing. We won't know about these things, as they are NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.
Would you tell a person born with one brown eye and one blue eye that is a sin, and they need to choose?
I've lived where dealing with transgenders is a medical specialty, and been part of a good church that ministered to them.
Here are a few things I've found: to someone who truly suffers a medical defect, this is a very difficult thing to deal with. They should be receiving extensive psychological treatment and evaluation long before any surgery. During that time, many express they always "felt like a man in a woman's body" or "felt like a woman in a man's body." At that point in addition to the psych eval, a thorough medical including dna testing of various sites on the body should be ordered. At that point some of these people learn they are not xx or xy. Some do not. Doesn't mean they are not chimeras, however, as that can be very hard to detect. Can't test every single cell in their bodies.
Some will NOT find confirmation through dna, through mri's, or through any other physical testing. During the time of psych eval and treatment, some will come to realize they are just a slightly built normal male that loves opera or a muscular woman who loves being a lumberjack. For those, strict gender roles in society led them to believe something was "wrong" with them for just being who God made them. They drop out of the program.
Others will figure out, with help, that they have suffered some sort of psycho-sexual trauma. They get treatment for their ways of coping and find they do not want surgery, but are happily male or female.
After all of this, those with a detectable medical defect and SOME of those without will still be convinced there is some sort of problem. Some sort of "male brain/female body" or vice versa and still want the surgery.
At that point they need to live for a year as the gender they want to become. Some will immediately dress, act, and present as the new gender. Others will take months or years to transition before finally living a full year as the new identity.
If they do that, continuing psych evals, they get the surgery.
And of course, those with genetic disorders usually just get a faster track to surgery. Even for them, some time of psych care and trying out living the new gender is recommended.
All this is pretty daunting to those just wanting attention or making a political statement. They tend to wash out very early in the program. Either they self select out or they wash out due to poor psych evaluations.
Let me state I believe it will always be sin for a male to be with a male, or female with a female. This doesn't change that. Only in rare occasions such as a need for camouflage during war do I believe it not a sin for a woman to present and live as a man or a man as a woman. This doesn't change THAT either.
But--here is a biggie: only a person, God, the person's dr, and their mental health professional may be able to determine who is male and who is female when there is malfunction.
Certainly not the job of the local Baptist church to pronounce someone "male" who feels female and does not have xy dna, or has a genetic analomy, or who presents as xy BUT also has some female plumbing. We won't know about these things, as they are NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.
Transgender, for the most part, is not about some medical defect it is about choice.
A simple mind is easily amused.
RevMitchell, you need to be called out on that!
How do you know it is not usually about a medical defect but about choice? How many transgenders have you personally known and ministered to? How many have trusted you enough to show you the medical tests and results they have been through?
Are you their geneticist?
Are you their endocrinologist?
Did you run the mri looking for vestigial organs of the "other" gender?
How do you know what you claim to know?
Really--how? Or are you just guilty of judging just like the Pharisees? Does it make you feel superior to decide "most" of them are just sinners seeking to do more sinning?
Come on and tell us--I'm sure the medical profession is all ears to know how you have figured out what "most" of them suffer from. It can take an excellent doctor years to sift through and figure out if what is going on is physical, mental, emotional, or as you and I would agree sometimes sinful. It can take them years of testing hormone levels, looking for tumors here and there, doing dna testing, assessing bone structure and internal organs to come up with a diagnosis.
But you are amazing--you can do it from in front of a computer with just a few key strokes? Seriously, let us all in on how you came by that knowledge!
Or hush up, stand by them one to one and patiently wait as they and their doctors figure out what the problem is for that individual. Completely rule out medical defect. Completely rule out hormone imbalance. Completely rule out psych problems in need of treatment.
And then, only then, begin to discuss "choice." Or better yet, make yourself one foot taller just by "choosing" to do so.
How do you know it is not usually about a medical defect but about choice? How many transgenders have you personally known and ministered to? How many have trusted you enough to show you the medical tests and results they have been through?
Are you their geneticist?
Are you their endocrinologist?
Did you run the mri looking for vestigial organs of the "other" gender?
How do you know what you claim to know?
Really--how? Or are you just guilty of judging just like the Pharisees? Does it make you feel superior to decide "most" of them are just sinners seeking to do more sinning?
Come on and tell us--I'm sure the medical profession is all ears to know how you have figured out what "most" of them suffer from. It can take an excellent doctor years to sift through and figure out if what is going on is physical, mental, emotional, or as you and I would agree sometimes sinful. It can take them years of testing hormone levels, looking for tumors here and there, doing dna testing, assessing bone structure and internal organs to come up with a diagnosis.
But you are amazing--you can do it from in front of a computer with just a few key strokes? Seriously, let us all in on how you came by that knowledge!
Or hush up, stand by them one to one and patiently wait as they and their doctors figure out what the problem is for that individual. Completely rule out medical defect. Completely rule out hormone imbalance. Completely rule out psych problems in need of treatment.
And then, only then, begin to discuss "choice." Or better yet, make yourself one foot taller just by "choosing" to do so.
So what do you do with this?
A Baby Was Born "Pregnant" With Twins [LINK]
by Lisa Horten
Ready for this? A baby girl was born "pregnant" with 8- to 10-week-old twin fetus-like structures, ABC News reports. The baby was born in November 2010 and researchers are just now releasing their findings that what was thought to be a set of tumors in her abdomen were actually fetuses. They weighed in at half an ounce and a third of an ounce and were developmentally far enough along that they each had four limbs, a spine, a rib cage, intestines, and an anus.
The nearly 9-pound "pregnant" baby underwent a successful surgery to remove the fetuses when she was just 2 weeks old. The condition is known as fetus in fetu, and there have been 200 documented incidences — ever. Fetus in fetu occurs when a partially-developed fetus (or in this case, two of them) becomes incorporated into a normally-developing fetus within the womb.
A Baby Was Born "Pregnant" With Twins [LINK]
by Lisa Horten
Ready for this? A baby girl was born "pregnant" with 8- to 10-week-old twin fetus-like structures, ABC News reports. The baby was born in November 2010 and researchers are just now releasing their findings that what was thought to be a set of tumors in her abdomen were actually fetuses. They weighed in at half an ounce and a third of an ounce and were developmentally far enough along that they each had four limbs, a spine, a rib cage, intestines, and an anus.
The nearly 9-pound "pregnant" baby underwent a successful surgery to remove the fetuses when she was just 2 weeks old. The condition is known as fetus in fetu, and there have been 200 documented incidences — ever. Fetus in fetu occurs when a partially-developed fetus (or in this case, two of them) becomes incorporated into a normally-developing fetus within the womb.
Wow, just wow. I am in awe of your singular ability to weigh in on any subject with these definitive statements in fields you are completely ignorant of. Just stop. I'm not sure you realize just how stupid of a statement that was.
And tell me, who died and made you ALL knowing? Your statement is more arrogant and pompous than anything the Rev may or may not know, according to you! I mean, wow! Now I've heard it all. You owe Rev an apology, but I'm sure you "know better"and an apology is not forthcoming. :flower:
transgender
[trans-jen-der, tranz‐]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
adjective, Also, transgendered
1. noting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person’s biological sex assigned at birth: the transgender movement;
transgender rights.
2. noting or relating to a person who does not conform to societal gender norms or roles.
3. a person who is transgender.
Usage note
The term transgender has largely replaced the older term transsexual, which is now considered outdated. Transgender is a less clinical term, referring more to gender identity and gender expression than to sexual orientation or physical sex characteristics.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transgender
[trans-jen-der, tranz‐]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
adjective, Also, transgendered
1. noting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person’s biological sex assigned at birth: the transgender movement;
transgender rights.
2. noting or relating to a person who does not conform to societal gender norms or roles.
3. a person who is transgender.
Usage note
The term transgender has largely replaced the older term transsexual, which is now considered outdated. Transgender is a less clinical term, referring more to gender identity and gender expression than to sexual orientation or physical sex characteristics.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transgender
Kinda hard to fully repent of this one, without having yet another surgery I suppose, which I'm not entirely sure is even possible if you knew the details.
To be fair to them they do not seem to actually know what a transgender is.
Well apparently you had to look it up in the dictionary Rev. Your exhaustive research on this subject that has deemed you a subject matter expert consisted soley of the use of the dictionary. It would be comical if it weren't so predictable.
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Trasgender and Homosexuality are the result of the fall, as neither were intended by God to be the norm in his original creation, and neither would exist today without there being sin in the world...
Cancer wouldn't exist either...what's your point?
The church that my wife and I belong to is exactly that. A church. We attend and we're friendly with those in the congregation and we participate.
We refuse however to delve much into our private lives..., either in church or in public..., even though there isn't much to tell or confess to, as it's our private life. We're coming up on 50 years of marriage and when that special day comes we will probably quietly celebrate, just the two of us, or, include our immediate family.
While my wife and I have no secrets per se, we just don't see a need to seek sympathy when my back hurts.
I just don't see any need for the entire congregation to know that Sister Mabel suffers with an ingrown toenail, in detail; or that Sam's son and his fourth wife are fighting; or that Clarence and Nancy cheated on their income tax and got caught. Some of these things are absolutely nobody's business. It opens the door to endless gossip and speculation on the part of many.
...keep yo' mouf' shut!
So it is with Bruce Jenner. As far as I'm concerned he can do what he/she wants. So it is with all the other confused souls out there. They have made a conscience decision to jump off the cliff and the end result will be for them to deal with. Sad, but that's the way it is. I simply don't need to know about it in detail.
If I had any kind of odd ball personality defect and wanted to attend church I'd not say a word about my condition. That being the case the church could vote me in with no reservations.
We refuse however to delve much into our private lives..., either in church or in public..., even though there isn't much to tell or confess to, as it's our private life. We're coming up on 50 years of marriage and when that special day comes we will probably quietly celebrate, just the two of us, or, include our immediate family.
While my wife and I have no secrets per se, we just don't see a need to seek sympathy when my back hurts.
I just don't see any need for the entire congregation to know that Sister Mabel suffers with an ingrown toenail, in detail; or that Sam's son and his fourth wife are fighting; or that Clarence and Nancy cheated on their income tax and got caught. Some of these things are absolutely nobody's business. It opens the door to endless gossip and speculation on the part of many.
...keep yo' mouf' shut!
So it is with Bruce Jenner. As far as I'm concerned he can do what he/she wants. So it is with all the other confused souls out there. They have made a conscience decision to jump off the cliff and the end result will be for them to deal with. Sad, but that's the way it is. I simply don't need to know about it in detail.
If I had any kind of odd ball personality defect and wanted to attend church I'd not say a word about my condition. That being the case the church could vote me in with no reservations.
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that those who are either are making the choice to be in those camps...
Not in their current identity.