Wrestling Scriptures ( Joshua 10:26)

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Look at your reply post #58



My point was the Jews requested hastening of the deaths of the crucified so thaT Sabbath would not find them on the cross because sabbath was hours away but you said it was ALREADY Sabbath.

That is exactly right. That is what stands WRITTEN in Greek; and also in the KJV and as far as I now can remember in every translation I am familiar with.

I shall DV answer further on this point in reply to another post of yours. This miserably hopeless incompetent government of ours 'shed power' just as I was to press the 'submit' button.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you

Question
On what day did Jesus appear to the disciples from John 20:19?
A. Saturday
B. Sunday
C. Monday

Kindly concentrate on the text(s) we are busy with? We have historical event and linguistic CONTEXT AND CONTENT to deal with so that the same words may take on different functions and meanings. Keep that in mind for now as far as John 20:19 is concerned. We are now dealing with John 19:31,38, please.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Are you well? You are confused or making up your theories on the go

1. The Jews would not suffer a hanging body on Sabbath, so they wait UNTIL sabbath so they can remove the body?
2. When did the Jews request for the legs to be broken? Preparation or Sabbath?
3. What is day of Preparation?

John 19:31 (ESV)
31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away

Mark 15:42 (ESV)
42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath

Mark mirrors V38 which happened AFTER v 31
John 19:38 (ESV)
38 After these things Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took away his body.

Your bogus unintelligible theory suggests that Jesus hanged on the cross right up to sabbath morning (he hanged the whole night or half of the sabbath hours). But here you have clear proof that of the Jews requesting for accelerated deaths so there can't be no body hanging on sabbath.

Crucifixion was a death sentence and nobody could come off the cross alive; so Jews request the crucified bones broken so they can die much quicker so their families or whoever may access their bodies BEFORE sabbath

Now for that post ....

You touch on one very important aspect of the issue here ---a very real factor about human nature which sometimes render human behaviour inexplicable, illogical, and, as you say, <unintelligible>.

You have hit on the heart of the matter.

But on the wrong person's heart. Today it's not my fault. Yes, it was my fault too, 2000 years ago ---as it was yours as well, as we both stood before the cross, the completely irrational blood lusting murderers on the Son of God.

JOHN SAYS IT!

John TELLS us, "it was 6 a.m. and IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER'S", SABBATH when the Jews shouted, "Let his blood be upon US!"

And scarcely 12 hours later, they came to their SENSES!

They HAD TO regain sanity, "because it already had become evening since the Preparation Day had started ... BECAUSE THAT DAY WAS GREAT-DAY-SABBATH-OF" their very passover they totally had forgotten when they had gone that mad the same morning still.

Now, let’s go over that post of yours again, and apply what you correctly observe there, to the right people!

Are you well? You are confused or making up your theories on the go

1. The Jews would not suffer a hanging body on Sabbath, so they wait UNTIL sabbath so they can remove the body?
2. When did the Jews request for the legs to be broken? Preparation or Sabbath?
3. What is day of Preparation?



Were they well? Were they confused or making up their theories on the go IN THEIR MAD RUSH to have Jesus crucified?

1. The Jews would not suffer a hanging body on their passover-sabbath, so how could they not HURRY and BEFORE sabbath have removed the body? OR BETTER, NOT HAVE KILLED JESUS in the first place?
Because they did not realise THEY WERE ACTING OUT THE LAW OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH!


2. Therefore: When did the Jews request for the legs to be broken? Preparation or Sabbath?

ONLY “ON THE SABBATH”! because they were caught in the aftermath of their own SINNING against God’s Passover-LAW!

3. So, What is day of Preparation?

Now wait a while, dear Vooks, and think twice before you quote

John 19:31 (ESV)
31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away

Mark 15:42 (ESV)
42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath

Mark mirrors V38 which happened AFTER v 31
John 19:38 (ESV)
38 After these things Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took away his body.

Think again:

That this quoted “Preparation Day”, CAME AFTER the Jews’ madness; and that ITS VERY “evening-START”, was what STARTLED THEM TO THEIR SENSES!

And remember that it was not on THIS “Preparation Day” upon which the Jews CREATED THEIR PREDICAMENT!

But THINK, and REMEMBER, that this “Preparation Day” that STARTED in John 19:31,39 Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 and Luke 23:50, was the “Preparation Day which is the Fore-Sabbath” --‘Friday’-- AFTER the day before on which they actually HAD CRUCIFIED AND “KILLED the passover on” : “the first day they REMOVED leaven (-of-Life) on” : Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30 1Corinthians 11:23 : “THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER” ---not, “the Preparation because that day was great day sabbath of” the passover!

3. So, What was day of Preparation that fateful day?

It was the first one of the TWO “Preparation” Days in that week that the Lord Jesus was crucified and had died AND “THE NEXT DAY” was BURIED as WRITTEN in the Law and Prophets which the Jews made their contribution to, just like you and I would have.

It was the first "Preparation" in John 19:14. It was not "that day great day sabbath" AND "The Preparation" in John 19:31.

 

[vooks]

That is exactly right. That is what stands WRITTEN in Greek; and also in the KJV and as far as I now can remember in every translation I am familiar with.

I shall DV answer further on this point in reply to another post of yours. This miserably hopeless incompetent government of ours 'shed power' just as I was to press the 'submit' button.

Sorry,
Get a laptop or a small UPS

And you should have mentioned xenophobic

 

[vooks]

Now for that post ....

You touch on one very important aspect of the issue here ---a very real factor about human nature which sometimes render human behaviour inexplicable, illogical, and, as you say, <unintelligible>.

You have hit on the heart of the matter.

But on the wrong person's heart. Today it's not my fault. Yes, it was my fault too, 2000 years ago ---as it was yours as well, as we both stood before the cross, the completely irrational blood lusting murderers on the Son of God.

JOHN SAYS IT!

John TELLS us, "it was 6 a.m. and IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER'S", SABBATH when the Jews shouted, "Let his blood be upon US!"

And scarcely 12 hours later, they came to their SENSES!

They HAD TO regain sanity, "because it already had become evening since the Preparation Day had started ... BECAUSE THAT DAY WAS GREAT-DAY-SABBATH-OF" their very passover they totally had forgotten when they had gone that mad the same morning still.

Now, let’s go over that post of yours again, and apply what you correctly observe there, to the right people!

Are you well? You are confused or making up your theories on the go

1. The Jews would not suffer a hanging body on Sabbath, so they wait UNTIL sabbath so they can remove the body?
2. When did the Jews request for the legs to be broken? Preparation or Sabbath?
3. What is day of Preparation?



Were they well? Were they confused or making up their theories on the go IN THEIR MAD RUSH to have Jesus crucified?

1. The Jews would not suffer a hanging body on their passover-sabbath, so how could they not HURRY and BEFORE sabbath have removed the body? OR BETTER, NOT HAVE KILLED JESUS in the first place?
Because they did not realise THEY WERE ACTING OUT THE LAW OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH!


2. Therefore: When did the Jews request for the legs to be broken? Preparation or Sabbath?

ONLY “ON THE SABBATH”! because they were caught in the aftermath of their own SINNING against God’s Passover-LAW!

3. So, What is day of Preparation?

Now wait a while, dear Vooks, and think twice before you quote

John 19:31 (ESV)
31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away

Mark 15:42 (ESV)
42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath

Mark mirrors V38 which happened AFTER v 31
John 19:38 (ESV)
38 After these things Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took away his body.

Think again:

That this quoted “Preparation Day”, CAME AFTER the Jews’ madness; and that ITS VERY “evening-START”, was what STARTLED THEM TO THEIR SENSES!

And remember that it was not on THIS “Preparation Day” upon which the Jews CREATED THEIR PREDICAMENT!

But THINK, and REMEMBER, that this “Preparation Day” that STARTED in John 19:31,39 Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 and Luke 23:50, was the “Preparation Day which is the Fore-Sabbath” --‘Friday’-- AFTER the day before on which they actually HAD CRUCIFIED AND “KILLED the passover on” : “the first day they REMOVED leaven (-of-Life) on” : Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30 1Corinthians 11:23 : “THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER” ---not, “the Preparation because that day was great day sabbath of” the passover!

3. So, What was day of Preparation that fateful day?

It was the first one of the TWO “Preparation” Days in that week that the Lord Jesus was crucified and had died AND “THE NEXT DAY” was BURIED as WRITTEN in the Law and Prophets which the Jews made their contribution to, just like you and I would have.

It was the first "Preparation" in John 19:14. It was not "that day great day sabbath" AND "The Preparation" in John 19:31.

You make little sense if at all. Focus. We have agreed that Jesus was NOT crucified on a sabbath weekly/annual. Now,
1. What is Preparation Day?
2. Was Jesus crucified on Preparation Day?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You make little sense if at all. Focus. We have agreed that Jesus was NOT crucified on a sabbath weekly/annual. Now,
1. What is Preparation Day?
2. Was Jesus crucified on Preparation Day?

I see, not yet ...

So again, Jesus was NOT _crucified_ on ANY 'sabbath' whether 'Sabbath-of-the-week', or, "on-the-sabbath-that-day-great-day-sabbath-of..." the passover.

THEREFORE, Jesus MUST have been crucified and KILLED the day BEFORE : ANY, 'sabbath', whether 'Sabbath-of-the-week', or, "on-the-sabbath-that-day-great-day-sabbath-of..." the passover.

Now on which kind of day would Jesus have been crucified?

ON "THE PREPARATION DAY" of course!

The only question remaining would be :

On WHICH 'sabbath'-day's 'Preparation Day'?

On "The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath", 'Friday'?

Or,

On "the Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER", the day BEFORE?

THINK:

On "The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath", 'Friday' in John 19:31?

Or,

On "the Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER", the day BEFORE in John 19:14?

On "the Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER", the day before which was the Fifth Day of the week, 'Thursday' indeed!!

Goodness man, the Old Testament PROPHESIED THIS VERY THING!

Leviticus 23:5,6 ET AL . . .

"In the fourteenth day of the First Month is the passover of the LORD (KILLED)";

"And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the FEAST (-Sabbath) of Unleavened Bread" (EATEN = BURIED).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You make little sense if at all. Focus. We have agreed that Jesus was NOT crucified on a sabbath weekly/annual. Now,
1. What is Preparation Day?
2. Was Jesus crucified on Preparation Day?

So yes, Jesus was crucified on <<Preparation Day>>

WHAT or WHICH <<Preparation Day>> though!?

"On the Preparation OF THE PASSOVER" in John 19:14

---NOT on "The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath ... because that-day-being-great-day-SABBATH-of-" the passover in John 19:31.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Conclusion:

1)
"The passover" in the Old Testament "on the fourteenth day of the First Month", in the New Testament had become "The Preparation-of-the-Passover" on the fourteenth day of the same month "when they always had to KILL the passover".

2)
"Feast of unleavened bread" in the Old Testament "on the fifteenth day of the First Month", in the New Testament had become "THAT-DAY-GREAT-DAY-SABBATH-OF" the Passover of Yahweh on the fifteenth day of the same month through Jesus Christ "Our Passover" eaten and drunk by faith by the believers.

. . . . through Jesus Christ "Our Passover" eaten and drank by faith by the believers ---“whenever ye eat” or “drink”, “eating and drinking OF CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE AND NOURISHMENT MINISTERED … SABBATHS’-FEAST-OF-CHRIST”— assembling yourselves together … where two or three … worship God in truth and in spirit … IN MY NAME.

 

[vooks]

I see, not yet ...

So again, Jesus was NOT _crucified_ on ANY 'sabbath' whether 'Sabbath-of-the-week', or, "on-the-sabbath-that-day-great-day-sabbath-of..." the passover.

THEREFORE, Jesus MUST have been crucified and KILLED the day BEFORE : ANY, 'sabbath', whether 'Sabbath-of-the-week', or, "on-the-sabbath-that-day-great-day-sabbath-of..." the passover.

Now on which kind of day would Jesus have been crucified?

ON "THE PREPARATION DAY" of course!

The only question remaining would be :

On WHICH 'sabbath'-day's 'Preparation Day'?

On "The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath", 'Friday'?

Or,

On "the Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER", the day BEFORE?

THINK:

On "The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath", 'Friday' in John 19:31?

Or,

On "the Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER", the day BEFORE in John 19:14?

On "the Preparation-of-the-PASSOVER", the day before which was the Fifth Day of the week, 'Thursday' indeed!!

Goodness man, the Old Testament PROPHESIED THIS VERY THING!

Leviticus 23:5,6 ET AL . . .

"In the fourteenth day of the First Month is the passover of the LORD (KILLED)";

"And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the FEAST (-Sabbath) of Unleavened Bread" (EATEN = BURIED).

Thank you!
Jesus was crucified on the day before sabbath (annual/weekly is debatable)

 

[vooks]

So yes, Jesus was crucified on <<Preparation Day>>

WHAT or WHICH <<Preparation Day>> though!?

"On the Preparation OF THE PASSOVER" in John 19:14

---NOT on "The Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath ... because that-day-being-great-day-SABBATH-of-" the passover in John 19:31.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2219456&postcount=80

You claimed that FIRST OF SABBATHS is 'incorrect'

"on the first of the sabbaths"is incorrect. John is referring TO: "It being EVENING with (Dative Demonstrative Pronoun) reference TO" what had happened "THAT DAY on the First Day of the week" ('Sunday').

'Tehi miai (Hehmerai) sabbatohn' is New Testament and Christian Greek Idiom for "the First Day of the week".

It is impossible the Feminine Dative Article and Numeral <<the first of the>> can agree to the Neuter Genitive Noun <<sabbaths>>. The Feminine word, "day" is supposed and acts, by Synecdochee and Ellipses.

Idiom is not rigid inflexible grammatical rule.

John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you

Question
1. On what day did Jesus appear to the disciples from John 20:19?
A. Saturday
B. Sunday
C. Monday

2. Could you paraphrase John 20:19 in your own 'correct' way

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2219456&postcount=80

You claimed that FIRST OF SABBATHS is 'incorrect'



John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having been shut where the disciples were assembled, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith to them, `Peace to you

Question
1. On what day did Jesus appear to the disciples from John 20:19?
A. Saturday
B. Sunday
C. Monday

2. Could you paraphrase John 20:19 in your own 'correct' way

This is WRONG : <<<John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths,>>>

It would have had to be 'tohi heni' + a Masculine Dative Noun but you have a Neuter Genitive Noun so that even 'tohi heni' is incorrect because it is Dative and not Genitive and Singular instead of Plural.

What a mess! <<Uninteligible>>? No, plain crazy.

Believe the KJV if it was the only time!

 

[vooks]

This is WRONG : <<<John 20:19 (YLT)
19 It being, therefore, evening, on that day, the first of the sabbaths,>>>

It would have had to be 'tohi heni' + a Masculine Dative Noun but you have a Neuter Genitive Noun so that even 'tohi heni' is incorrect because it is Dative and not Genitive and Singular instead of Plural.

What a mess! <<Uninteligible>>? No, plain crazy.

Believe the KJV if it was the only time!

The crazy think everyone else is:laugh:
Is this the ONLY instance Jesus appeared on Sunday evening right after his resurrection?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The crazy think everyone else is:laugh:
Is this the ONLY instance Jesus appeared on Sunday evening right after his resurrection?

You're quite right, <<<The crazy think everyone else is>>>

What are you talking about?

Who said anything like, <<<this the ONLY instance Jesus appeared on Sunday evening right after his resurrection?>>>

. . . goodness gracious me . . .