Ye must be born again !

[Brightfame52]

This is exactly your problem. The Bible is a Jewish book and the words in it are precise and exact and must be believed for one to walk in the light of it. Gentiles have been invited into fellowship with God because of his grace and mercy, not because he saw anything in you worth saving before he created the world.

Sounds like to me you promoting confidence in the flesh, ethnicity. God is Spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit and Truth, has nothing to do with ones race.

 

[JD731]

Sounds like to me you promoting confidence in the flesh, ethnicity. God is Spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit and Truth, has nothing to do with ones race.

How would you know when and if prophecy is fulfilled and do you like your hermeneutical principle and philosophy because it allows you to have the Bible mean what you want it to mean? God says the test of a true prophet is whether his prophecies come to pass. Do you disagree with that?

 

[Brightfame52]

If a person is born again by a decision of the will or the flesh, then they are born by the will of the flesh, of which conclusions clearly contradict Jn 1:13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Brightfame52]

How would you know when and if prophecy is fulfilled and do you like your hermeneutical principle and philosophy because it allows you to have the Bible mean what you want it to mean? God says the test of a true prophet is whether his prophecies come to pass. Do you disagree with that?

Actually this thread is about " Ye must be born again" Im putting my time into that, are you interested ?

 

[Campion]

There are two main reasons why I do not believe that the phrase Water and Spirit can refer to baptism, and why I support the Reformed Baptist position. Firstly, if baptism is intended by this phrase then that ordinance is absolutely necessary for salvation. ‘Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’. On that basis, the thief on the cross is damned; likewise such groups as the Quakers and the Salvation Army, who do not practise water baptism, are, every single one of them, utterly lost. Yet there is no other Bible text that teaches this. On the contrary, two verses (1Peter 1:23; James 1:18) ascribe the New Birth not to baptism, but to the Word. Moreover Paul (1Cor. 1:17) wrote that, ‘Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel’, a strange thing to say if baptism is so very necessary to salvation.

Secondly, I cannot believe that our Lord would be reinforcing what is the chief error of Pharisaism; the idea that outward purification can bring about inward cleansing. Pharisees like Nicodemus spent all their time in ritual washings and cleansings (Mark 7:3-4). Is it really likely that the Lord Jesus would be saying to him, “What you need, Nicodemus, more than anything else, is another ritual washing”? If that was our Lord’s meaning, then why was Nicodemus so dumbfounded by it? More ceremonial, outward cleansings would have been right up his street, water off a duck’s back in more ways than one! No, Nicodemus’ problem was not on the outside but the inside. “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness” Mark 7:21f). Can an external washing purify a man from inward sin and depravity? Of course not! “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. …….. For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness” (Matt. 23:25ff). In the Shakespeare play, Lady Macbeth cries out, “Will these hands ne’er be cleansed?” No matter how many times she washed them, the blood of her sin still seemed to stain her hands. No outward washing could make her inwardly clean. The cleansing she needed would have had to deal with her guilt within.

So if 'water and Spirit' does not mean baptism, what does it mean?
‘Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do you not know these things?”’ (John 3:10). What our Lord is saying is that if Nicodemus was such a great Old Testament teacher, he would know what He was talking about instead of being so totally confused and dumbfounded. Therefore there must be some reference in the Hebrew Scriptures to the New Birth and to Water and Spirit which would have helped Nicodemus to understand; otherwise our Lord’s rebuke would have been unfair. With this in mind let us consider the following verses:-

‘For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take your heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them’ (Ezek 36:24ff).

“Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts, and in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom. Purge [N.I.V., ‘cleanse’] me with hyssop and I shall be clean; wash me and I shall be whiter than snow ……..Hide Your face from my sins, and blot out my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me (Psalm 51:6,7,9,10).

Here, in these two texts, we surely get a preview of the work of God, the Holy Spirit, in the New Birth. It is a two-fold work of water and Spirit: an inward cleansing from sin and idolatry, and a renewal of the heart and spirit for future obedience. That it is a spiritual cleansing rather than baptism that is meant in these passages is indicated by the mention of hyssop in Psalm 51. This is not some ancient Hebrew soap, as I first thought when I read the Psalm as a very young Christian, but rather the sprig of a plant. On the day of the Passover, the Israelites were instructed (Exod.12:22) to dip the hyssop in the blood of the slain Passover lamb and sprinkle it on the lintel and the doorposts of their houses. Therefore, to be cleansed with hyssop is to be washed in the blood of the Lamb (Heb.9:11ff; Rev. 7:14). No outward ablution could ever cleanse us from moral ‘filthiness and idolatry’. We need a cleansing which works from within.

...But Scripture is explicit that baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21), thus it is necessary for salvation.

Sometimes it takes satire to drive home the point...

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1 Peter 3:21 explicitly says that the baptism he is thinking about is not outward washing. '......Not the removal of the filth of the flesh.'
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I........He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire" (Matthew 3:11). The baptism that we need first is that of the Holy Spirit

 

[JD731]

Actually this thread is about " Ye must be born again" Im putting my time into that, are you interested ?

Yes, I am interested in the subject of the born again doctrine. It is what I have been talking about. You have been quoting passages and applying them to yourself when the words you are quoting are addressed to someone else. The term "born again" is not used by the apostle Paul, who wrote all his letters to gentiles. In the letters of Peter to the strangers scattered through the provinces of Asia Minor, he references the need for the spiritual new birth by the gospel of Christ as opposed to the corruptible physical birth through Abraham, a birth they took great pride in.

It is clear in the letter that, as I pointed out already, the new birth, making them the children of the living God, is fulfilling an 800 year old prophecy of Hosea that he gave specifically to the 10 tribe nation called Israel or Ephraim in the OT. While the saved of this particular people put them into the church of Jesus Christ, Peter did not write to them as the church but as a nation to whom he had made a promise that he is now keeping in Christ. A nation, something that the church of Jesus Christ is not.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (Read Hosea 1 now)

When will you believe the words in their proper context? And what would a gentile know or care about what was written in the scriptures?


Also, Peter is separating these strangers from gentiles.

12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Can you discuss being born again in it's given scriptural context?

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes, I am interested in the subject of the born again doctrine. It is what I have been talking about. You have been quoting passages and applying them to yourself when the words you are quoting are addressed to someone else. The term "born again" is not used by the apostle Paul, who wrote all his letters to gentiles. In the letters of Peter to the strangers scattered through the provinces of Asia Minor, he references the need for the spiritual new birth by the gospel of Christ as opposed to the corruptible physical birth through Abraham, a birth they took great pride in.

It is clear in the letter that, as I pointed out already, the new birth, making them the children of the living God, is fulfilling an 800 year old prophecy of Hosea that he gave specifically to the 10 tribe nation called Israel or Ephraim in the OT. While the saved of this particular people put them into the church of Jesus Christ, Peter did not write to them as the church but as a nation to whom he had made a promise that he is now keeping in Christ. A nation, something that the church of Jesus Christ is not.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (Read Hosea 1 now)

When will you believe the words in their proper context? And what would a gentile know or care about what was written in the scriptures?


Also, Peter is separating these strangers from gentiles.

12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Can you discuss being born again in it's given scriptural context?

Im discussing being born again in the way God has determined for me to discuss it. Being born again has nothing to do with ethnicity.

 

[Campion]

1 Peter 3:21 explicitly says that the baptism he is thinking about is not outward washing. '......Not the removal of the filth of the flesh.'
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I........He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire" (Matthew 3:11). The baptism that we need first is that of the Holy Spirit

I've never understood the exegetical approach which states the opposite of what the text says is the true meaning. For example, in 1 Peter 3:21 it explicitly states baptism "now saves you." I don't quite understand how this can be interpreted to be baptism "DOES NOT actually save you."

But, let's take a look at the context and see if we can somehow conclude that he means the opposite of what he wrote...

"...because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," (1 Peter 3:20-21)

We must recall that water in the Bible brings both death and life. It destroys the old and recreates something new. The waters of the flood washed the sinners away, and through it something new was created. Eight (tremendous symbolism here but for another time) souls, including Noah and his family, were saved through the waters of the flood. So Noah and his family were saved through the water, not by the water. The water of the flood washed away the sin of the world, thereby saving Noah and his family. It is through this same water that creation was also made new. (cf. Gen 9:1)

So Peter is drawing the parallel between the saving waters of the flood and that of the saving water of baptism for us. Peter then drives home the important part, stating that baptism is not "not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience." This demonstrates the effects of the waters of baptism act not on the exterior flesh (washing the actual body), but rather interiorly, on the conscience and soul of man. (If you want dirt removed from your body, you take an actual bath!)

Baptism is therefore the anti-type of the waters of the flood. The waters of baptism now cleanse not our flesh, but our sin. (cf. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Titus 3:5) Hence its effect is not on our flesh (i.e. removal of dirt), but rather on our interior.

 

[Brightfame52]

To be born again means that from another you must be born, but this time out of a Incorruptible Seed. The Natural Life of the Elect came out of Corruptible seed, that is of Adam, but now, if we are to be saved, one must be born out of a Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23. Again, the Life the Elect had in Adam and developed and manifest in time was of a corruptible seed, however to be born again a second time of incorruptible seed, one must have Life already existing in the Incorruptible Seed, as they had Life already existing [in seed substance] in the corruptible seed. The Incorruptible Seed is the Word of God, the Logos, who is Jesus Christ. In order to be born out of the Logos, we must have had a seed substance In Him, a Life existence in Christ, as we did in adam.

So Jesus also in His discourse with nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal existence in Him, the Living Word, that Incorruptible Seed, they shall not see or enter into the Kingdom of God.

Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes about in Jn 3 is no way related to the flesh, or any activity of the flesh, its origin is out of whole different realm Jn 3:6a, and what is really insane these days is that the false teaching of a Spiritual Birth is the product of a decision of a man of flesh, the natural mans freewill, in contradiction to Jn 1:13.

The religonist will always contradict scripture to promote their false views against the Truth, but they shall soon answer to God in the Judgment ! 3

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:3-5

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

After New Birth, a Birth into the Spiritual Kingdom of God, Being born of the Spirit, now in possession of Spiritual Life, which now means in possession of Spiritual Eyes, Ears, and Heart to understand Spiritually. It is now the Elect are in a condition to do spiritually the commands of God and His Kingdom, to Repent, to Believe the Gospel, to see the Son and Believe on Him Jn 6:40

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yes, the seeing and Believing are Spiritual ! 5

 

[Brightfame52]

Following New Birth

After one is born again, birthed into a Spiritual Kingdom of God, or God's Dear Son Col 1:13

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [which is accomplished by New Birth] Now born of the Spirit into the Kingdom of Grace, also now in possession of Spiritual Light and Life, they now have spiritual eyes that are open to spiritual things [1 Cor 2:12-13], they now have spiritual ears to hear spiritual tidings [ Eph 1:13], are given a spiritual heart to understand spiritual Truth [ Matt 13:23], one understands with their heart as indicated in Matt 13:15

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Now after New Birth the Elect are in a suitable spiritual condition, to do spiritually the commands of God, to repent and to believe on Christ, to Love the brethren ! 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Those Spiritual Kingdom laws, only those birthed into that Kingdom can and will comply !

 

[Brightfame52]

New Birth before believing the Gospel is True !

That men are regenerated before God sends them the Gospel as the word of their Salvation, in order for them to believe and be saved, is taught in the scripture in many places. It is certainly implied here Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed[Gospel] into the good ground[New Birth] is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

It is good ground because it has been given a spiritual capacity by New Birth to understand the things of God, which the Gospel is ! The good ground is a good heart as per Lk 8:15

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Now, if we are true to scripture teaching, by nature, no one has a good and honest heart, but one that is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So, its proved from this that New Birth precedes the Gospel of Salvation !

But it is also Illustrated by Cornelius, who was regenerated or born again before God sent him the Gospel to believe through peter. Now how do we know that Cornelius was regenerated or born again ? Because scripture says about him as it said about Job, that he feared God ! Job 1:1

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Acts 10:1-2,22,35

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Now when a person is said to fear God, that is a testimony of the Grace of God in them, that God hath wrought in them Jn 3:21

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

This is True because we men by nature have no fear of God before our eyes as per Rom 3:10-18

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now who dare dispute what has been shown thus far from The Word of Truth ?

 

[Brightfame52]

New Birth before believing the Gospel is True ! Pt 2

Yes, So Romans 3:10-18, those verses describe the unregenerate world of both jew and gentile, to deny or reject any of this is simply denying and rejecting God's Truth. Now if it's God's Testimony that Cornelius feared God, it is evident the God has wrought in him a New heart to fear Him. David prayed Ps 86:11

Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

It [ A Heart that fears God] is a Covenant Blessing Jer 32:39-40

And this was not Gospel Regeneration or synergism of any kind, because Cornelius had not yet heard nor believed the Gospel of his Salvation ! Now if by God's Word we have established that Cornelius was regenerate because he feared God, which man by nature cannot do, then our next proof of scripture states that it is to such that fear God, is this word of Salvation sent Acts 13:26

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

The word of Salvation is sent by God to those who shall hear it ! Rom 10:13-15

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Acts 28:28

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

That is, His Regenerated Sheep among them as per Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.5

 

[Brightfame52]

New Birth before believing the Gospel is True ! Pt 3

So God sends the Gospel as a message of Salvation to those who are fearing Him through New Birth Acts 13:26

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Feareth God is in the present tense, those fearing God is the Gospel sent. Why ? It was sent to them that they should believe ! Acts 15:7

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Remember, Jesus has prayed for these already here Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Note: When God sends the Gospel of Salvation to the heart that fears Him by New Birth, it is to them the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The fact that they are regenerated tells us why it is called the Gospel of their Salvation, because they are already in a saved state by New Birth Titus 3:5.

Also note this, although a person as Cornelius is already Born Again and saved in that sense, yet in another real sense he was not saved until he believed the Gospel; of which there is a Gospel Salvation referenced here in Acts 11:13-14

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

There is a Gospel Conversion Salvation, of those who are already saved by regeneration; So the saved shall be saved by the preaching of the Gospel to them, Paul's point in 1 Cor 1:21

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

In other words, Believing the Truth is a salvation, from error and delusions ! 3

 

[Brightfame52]

The sanctification of the Spirit !

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The Sanctification of the Spirit is the same Divine Work as the Justification of the Spirit of 1 Cor 6:11

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Through His Work, the Spirit, The Work of God The Spirit, the Elect are enabled and caused to believe and embrace the truth, and that becomes their manifest Salvation or manifest Justification ! It [The sanctification of the Spirit] is also synonymous with the New Birth !

 

[Brightfame52]

Why the Elect need to be born again !

There is no doubt in my mind that Nicodemus was an Elect of God because scripture indicates later that he became a believer ! Jesus said to him, knowing of course that he was one of His Sheep that He was about to give His Life for this Jn 3:1-7

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

There is a message to be conveyed to all for whom Christ died, but it is not a carnal message, a message of this worlds origin, but a spiritual one !

And the Elect of God , for them to be able to see it, hear it and know of the things of the Spirit of God, such as the Gospel of their Salvation, the voice of the their Shepherd or Heavenly Bridegroom, they must be born from above.

Now the analogy can be taken from the first birth into this our natural world, before birth, they neither see nor hear or know anything of the natural world to which they shall be born, and so likewise, before they are born of the Spirit, they cannot see, hear or know anything of that Spiritual Kingdom they are to be born, hence they must be already born into it that Spiritual Kingdom to see [perceptively] or hear [perceptively] the Gospel of that Kingdom. Remember Jesus calls it the word of the Kingdom Matt 13:19

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

The New Birth into that Kingdom Spiritually, is imperative before the Elect can hear Spiritually and Understand spiritually as indicated in Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Please notice the difference from the hearer of vs 19 and the one of vs23, what is the difference Jesus points out ?

The one in vs 23 who hears also understands the word of the kingdom ! Why is that ? Jn 3 gives us our answer Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The word see here is the greek word eidō and means:
to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive

So evidently the one in Matt 13:23 who understands the word of the Kingdom preached unto him or her, had to be born again into the Kingdom of God, a Spiritual Kingdom !

And that is why the Elect must be born Again, to hear and understand the Gospel of their Salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard[Spiritually] the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Brightfame52]

If man had the ability in the flesh to do something that caused his salvation, then why the imperative necessity from the Saviour that one must be born again ?

 

[tyndale1946]

If man had the ability in the flesh to do something that caused his salvation, then why the imperative necessity from the Saviour that one must be born again ?

First of all since I joined the BB we have posters who seem like they are talking to themselves who go on and on and on and on... Like we had one old timer like myself, who wants to wade thru all that?... Jesus was not telling Nicodemus what he needed to do but telling him how it was done... It is an act performed by God alone... What is the purpose of The Holy Spirit?... I heard a friend of mine, a preacher put it this way... God the Father... The Creator, God The Son Jesus The Christ... The Savior... And God The Holy Spirit... The Regenerator... A little ditty he included was this... Three in One... One In Three... And the one in the middle died for me... Brother Glen

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[Brightfame52]

What is the Application of Redemption ?

The Application of Redemption is the New Birth, a New Life. When Jesus says that if I be lifted up, shall draw all men unto me, He is speaking of the Application of His Atoning Death, which causes all for whom He died to be begotten again by His Glorious Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It's also what Paul terms the Power of His Resurrection Phil 3:10

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Drawing is just another way of saying New Birth or Regeneration, for drawing is one of the properties of the New Birth !

The word draw is the greek word helkō and means:


to draw, drag off

2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Jesus is using it here in the metaphorical sense, In that by New Birth, putting His Spirit in us, He causes us to be lead by Him. Its like here Jn 10:3

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

The english word for draw also means:

to bring toward oneself or itself, as by inherent force or influence; attract:

Inward and inherent are the same and denote:

existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute:

In other words, the New Birth, the indwelling of the Spirit, the unction we now have, shall abide with us forever ! John says Jn 14:17

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Yes, the Spirit of God is the Application of Christ's Redemption Work, and that is why immediately after His Victorious Death and Resurrection and Ascension He did receive from the Father this Acts 2:33

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Yes, The Holy Ghost completes and makes Effectual the Saving Death of Christ by giving them New Birth as Per Titus 3:5-6

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

The shed on us abundantly is the application of Redemption ! 6