Ye must be born again !

[savedbymercy]

dw

This text does NOT say that he was justified BEFORE he repented

It doesn't say he wasn't !

However, He was Justified before God and he knew and felt his sinfulness. You think after his prayer right there he no longer felt sinful ? I believe he did. Any child of grace does ! We feel sinful everyday being in these sinful bodies. Being sinful or knowing that one is a sinner does not mean they are not Justified before God.

What determines if one is Justified before God or not, is whether or not Christ's blood was shed for them. Christ blood does away with all legal guilt.

And on top of that, All the legal Guilt of the Elect, was never imputed to their charge, but to Christ Charge, in order for Him to die for their sins. 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now Christ must have had the sins of those He died for, already imputed to Him to die for them ! So if they were imputed to Him, when were they ever imputed to the ones He died for ?

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



It doesn't say he wasn't !

It most certainly does! The order of the text is that the public repented FIRST and Christ declared justification SECOND.

Furthermore, you ignored the overall Biblical proof I placed in your face and that is it is always "justified by faith" and never do we read "justified BEFORE faith.".

You quote other scriptures and FORCE your ASSUMPTION on those texts just as you did this one when NONE of them actually say what you want them to say.

 

[DHK]

dw
What determines if one is Justified before God or not, is whether or not Christ's blood was shed for them. Christ blood does away with all legal guilt.

Back to the basics we go.
Did you ever hear of that children's song: "Jesus loves, this I know; for the Bible tells me so."
The reason I know I am saved is because the Bible tells me so, not because Calvin tells me.
The Bible tells me:
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Romans 5:1)
--Justification takes place at the time one receives Christ as Savior; the same time one is born again; the same time one puts their faith in Christ.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12)
--How does one become a child of God (born again) ?
By receiving Christ; by believing on his name (having faith in his name). This occurs at the time of salvation when one puts their faith in Christ. And, BTW, faith is not a gift given by God. It is innate with man. God does not give faith (spiritual gifts) to unsaved men.

And on top of that, All the legal Guilt of the Elect, was never imputed to their charge, but to Christ Charge, in order for Him to die for their sins. 1 Cor 15:3

Speak in Biblical terms instead of Calvineeze. The Bible speaks about Christ satisfying the legal demands of a holy God satisfying his requirements for the payment of sin, for the sins of the world. Christ died for the sins of the world. He was not simply a propitiation for our sins but for the sins of the whole world (1John 2:2).

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Now Christ must have had the sins of those He died for, already imputed to Him to die for them ! So if they were imputed to Him, when were they ever imputed to the ones He died for ?[/QUOTE]
Let's look at the entire passage. It may amaze you.

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

The gospel by which you are saved.
We are saved by believing the gospel. That is what the passage says.
It also says the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
Belief in that simple message brings one salvation.

He was writing to the entire Corinthian church. The gospel is for all mankind. They were commanded to preach it to all the world--to every creature, that all who believe might have eternal life. The elect doesn't even enter the story. The disciples were never told to preach the gospel to the elect. Leave God's business up to God. As far as you are concerned Christ died for the sins of the world, as the Bible declares he has.

 

[Dr. Walter]

--Justification takes place at the time one receives Christ as Savior; the same time one is born again; the same time one puts their faith in Christ

I whole heartedly agree with this statement. It is simeltaneous in regard to time and inseparable as much as repentance and faith are inseparable. However, in regard to logical cause and effect there is a distinct order between repentance and faith just as there is between faith and justification. I wish you could see the same is true between quickening and conversion. There is no such thing as an unregenerated believer any more than there is such a thing as a regenerated unbeliever. However, quickening LOGICALLY in regard to cause and effect precedes conversion (repentance/faith) just as repentance LOGICALLY precedes faith and faith LOGICALLY precedes justification.

 

[Dr. Walter]

poster is banned

Alright, rebuke towards me taken. Now let's see if you are really interested in sincere discussion on this subject.

First, DHK simply left out "me" accidently but his point was clear.

Second, there is nothing wrong in telling someone we must go back to basics if that is what DHK sincerely believes is necessary to deal with a subject.

This is a forum where debate is allowed and where people are often told they are wrong just as you took the liberty in this area to tell DHK and myself. However, you apparently have not been here long enough to read the kind of things SBG has been trying to teach.

I would like to know if you here to sincerely discuss/debate this topic or you are trying to play the role of a word policeman????

 

[savedbymercy]

1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

When Peter writes of being born again of incorruptible seed, there is no reason why it is not the seed we read of in Isa 53:10

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

This is the seed of the Suffering Servant, which is the word of God made flesh John 1:1,14

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Also see Rev 19:13

For Peter goes on to write, being born again,of that incorruptible seed, by the word of God !

The Logos of God. Yes the Logos of God, was given a Seed Isa 53:10

And as He it was and is incorruptible. In order to enter the Kingdom of God, one must be born of this incorruptible seed,

The only way to be born of this incorruptible seed, we would have to be in that seed, and that's done solely by God's Sovereign and Eternal Purpose.

 

[DHK]

1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

When Peter writes of being born again of incorruptible seed, there is no reason why it is not the seed we read of in Isa 53:10

Yes, there is good reason. The two verses have nothing to do with each other. Why pull Scripture out of context needlessly? Peter defines "seed" right in the same verse: "by the word of God which abides forever." Your are changing it to mean genealogy. You are butchering the word of God.

This is the seed of the Suffering Servant, which is the word of God made flesh John 1:1,14

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Also see Rev 19:13

"The seed which is the Word of God" It is not the Word (logos). You are not rightly dividing the word of God. May I suggest you take a course in hermeneutics.

For Peter goes on to write, being born again,of that incorruptible seed, by the word of God !

The Logos of God. Yes the Logos of God, was given a Seed Isa 53:10

And as He it was and is incorruptible. In order to enter the Kingdom of God, one must be born of this incorruptible seed,

The only way to be born of this incorruptible seed, we would have to be in that seed, and that's done solely by God's Sovereign and Eternal Purpose.

Look at the passage once again:

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever.
25 And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. (1 Peter 1:23-25)
--Is there any doubt now that this is not referring to Christ? It is referring to the written Word of God.

 

[DHK]

I whole heartedly agree with this statement. It is simeltaneous in regard to time and inseparable as much as repentance and faith are inseparable. However, in regard to logical cause and effect there is a distinct order between repentance and faith just as there is between faith and justification.

I don't agree--at least not for unbelievers coming to Christ.
Look carefully at the definition of repentance:
Repentance is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God.
In other words, once I was in rebellion toward God. Then I repented. My mind is changed toward God. My attitude now is one of submission to God. Correct?
What happens when I put my faith and trust in Christ as my Savior?
My attitude toward God changes. He becomes my Savior, the person I trust. Before that time I was rebellious toward him; now I have just made Him my Lord. That is also repentance. How can I put my faith in Christ without repenting at the same time. It is impossible. Repentance is just the flip side of faith. They go together. One cannot repent without having faith. One does not precede another. They happen at the same time. They have to.

I wish you could see the same is true between quickening and conversion.

There is no such thing as the Calvinistic model of "quickening." It is simply a conviction of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit doing His work as described in John 16. Regeneration does not happen until salvation, the same as justification.

There is no such thing as an unregenerated believer any more than there is such a thing as a regenerated unbeliever. However, quickening LOGICALLY in regard to cause and effect precedes conversion (repentance/faith) just as repentance LOGICALLY precedes faith and faith LOGICALLY precedes justification.

There is no proof of this. Salvation is one event with regeneration/justification/salvation all happening at the same time. What happens before is the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the deep felt conviction that the person is a sinner in need of a Savior to get him there. There is no time lapse between regeneration and salvation.
Just as one needs faith to be saved, one needs faith to be regenerated (the new birth) as it is clearly taught in John 1:12.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I don't agree--at least not for unbelievers coming to Christ.
Look carefully at the definition of repentance:
Repentance is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God.
In other words, once I was in rebellion toward God. Then I repented. My mind is changed toward God. My attitude now is one of submission to God. Correct?
What happens when I put my faith and trust in Christ as my Savior?
My attitude toward God changes. He becomes my Savior, the person I trust. Before that time I was rebellious toward him; now I have just made Him my Lord. That is also repentance. How can I put my faith in Christ without repenting at the same time. It is impossible. Repentance is just the flip side of faith. They go together. One cannot repent without having faith. One does not precede another. They happen at the same time. They have to.;

In the scriptures the order is ALWAYS "repent AND believe" and NEVER "believe AND repent" and there is a good reason for that. Even though they are inseparable there is a logical order and this order is represented in Scriptures by that order of language.

If you were right then we would find it equally reversed in scriptures but we do not find that do we?

We do find where one term alone stands as representative of both. However, when both terms are mention we NEVER find the order "believe AND repent" for a good reason because there is a logical order between the two and that would misrepresent the logical order.

I will respond to the rest of your article later. Go to go somewhere now. My Granddaugthers birthday party.

 

[DHK]

In the scriptures the order is ALWAYS "repent AND believe" and NEVER "believe AND repent" and there is a good reason for that. Even though they are inseparable there is a logical order and this order is represented in Scriptures by that order of language.

If you were right then we would find it equally reversed in scriptures but we do not find that do we?

We do find where one term alone stands as representative of both. However, when both terms are mention we NEVER find the order "believe AND repent" for a good reason because there is a logical order between the two and that would misrepresent the logical order.

I will respond to the rest of your article later. Go to go somewhere now. My Granddaugthers birthday party.

That is an OT concept.
Let's look carefully at the NT.
First give consideration to the Gospels and Acts. They are books of history. The gospels especially are pre-cross. The complete gospel is not explained there.
Second, the book of Acts is a historical book, the second volume of a two volume set by Luke. It is a book of transition. The church was in a state of flux.
Then we come to the epistles. The epistles are books of doctrine. Here is where we need to look for our soteriology, at least primarily. In the book of Acts the command to repent is never given for the unbeliever. Even though we have the entire book of Romans devoted to the theme of soteriology it does not command the unsaved to repent. Repentance in the epistles is only used in relation to the saved. The saved need to repent of individual sins to maintain a right relation with the Lord. This is emphasized in 1John, 1Cor.5 and many other passages. But repentance is not part of the gospel.

The gospel is explained in detail in 1Cor.15:1-4, but there is no repentance. We believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. We do not repent. Why? Repentance is part of belief or faith. Once a person has believed they have repented. They are one and the same thing. You cannot believe on the "LORD" without having repented--without changing your mind and attitude toward God. That is why repentance need not to be stressed in the NT--in the gospel message.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

"

The seed which is the Word of God" It is not the Word (logos

Yes it is !

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word[logos] of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[Dr. Walter]

That is an OT concept.

Paul tells the Hebrew Christians under the New Covenant that repentance is a fundemental foundation that they should not have to be retaught and that he presents repentance before faith:

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God...., - Heb. 6:1


Paul says it is a fundemental that has been laid as a foundation along with "faith towards God" and everything else is built upon that foundation and from thence we are to "go on to" more mature doctrines as in Hebrews 5:13 they are chided for having to be taught again these first principles rather than able to be given "meat" doctrines as such fundementals are "milk" teachings. However, you position would have Paul tell these New Covenant Christians that "repentance" especially in the order and relationship to faith as he places it is an Old Testament concept no longer valid at all under the New Covenant!

He also tells the same Hebrew Christians under the New Covenant that it was the very same gospel preached to Israel in the wilderness that was preached now to them:

Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Let's look carefully at the NT.

First give consideration to the Gospels and Acts. They are books of history. The gospels especially are pre-cross. The complete gospel is not explained there.
Second, the book of Acts is a historical book, the second volume of a two volume set by Luke. It is a book of transition. The church was in a state of flux.
Then we come to the epistles. The epistles are books of doctrine. Here is where we need to look for our soteriology, at least primarily.

You forget that all the epistles were being written during the recorded "Acts" period and are thus are concurrent with the book of Acts rather than something written later at a different time. Your position would lead us to the conclusion that what they preached as recorded in Acts is something different than what they wrote to the same people they were preaching to in Acts. Hence, your position that calls the recorded preaching in the book of Acts a "transition" but the writings in the epistles the final doctrine have them preaching one thing from their mouth and writing another thing from their pen to the VERY SAME PEOPLE.

My position is that the gospel is the same from Eden to Revelation and is impossible to separate from repentance as it is "good news" only to those who have a problem with sin.

In the book of Acts the command to repent is never given for the unbeliever.

Those in Acts 2:38 are not believers but lost people asking what they should do. He tells them to "repent" (Acts 2:38) as a precurser to being "saved" (Acts 2:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:

Note the first word was "repent" (v. 38) followed by "save yourselves" (v. 40) rather than reverse as you claim. They were still lost when they were told to "repent" or else Peter would not have go on to say "save yourselves" if they were already saved believers.
This is the very same order given by Christ in his own preaching (Mk 1:15) as well as by John the Baptist. Indeed preaching "repentance" is part of the Great Commission given by Christ to the Apostles:

Lk. 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

However, you would have us believe that this preaching of repentance is merely a "Transition" that ceased in the doctrinal maturity of the epistles while Christ not only gives in the same commission to all nations to the end of the world (as Luke's rendition is parallel to Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15-16) but Paul rebukes the Hebrew Christians for thinking that "repentance" was not part of the foundation of the New Covenant doctrine (Heb. 6:1) while claiming that only those immature would reject such a teaching under the New Covenant (Heb. 5:13-6:1).

Even though we have the entire book of Romans devoted to the theme of soteriology it does not command the unsaved to repent. Repentance in the epistles is only used in relation to the saved. The saved need to repent of individual sins to maintain a right relation with the Lord. This is emphasized in 1John, 1Cor.5 and many other passages.

The book of Romans is not addressed to unbelievers but to believers. However, anyone reading Romans 1:18-32 can easily see that it is the lack of repentance that brings on the increasing judgement of God upon unbelievers in that text. It is their failure to repent that brings on greater judgements.

But repentance is not part of the gospel
The gospel is explained in detail in 1Cor.15:1-4, but there is no repentance. We believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. We do not repent. Why? Repentance is part of belief or faith. Once a person has believed they have repented. They are one and the same thing. You cannot believe on the "LORD" without having repented--without changing your mind and attitude toward God. That is why repentance need not to be stressed in the NT--in the gospel message.

Paul tells the Hebrews under the New Covenant that "repentance" is fundementally inseparable from "faith" and part of the foundation of New Covenant doctrine (Heb. 6:1). Something that he should not have to reteach them but a foundation that should be laid in their thinking if they are going to mature in doctrine.

Repentance is a necessary precurser to preaching the gospel as there is no "good news" for those who love their sins. The angel said they shall call his name "Jesus for he shall save his people FROM THEIR SINS not merely give them pie in the sky.

I believe most likely (I could be wrong) that your thinking has been influence by the McArthur/Ryrie debate on repentance. I personally believe both men are wrong and neither are right altogether. McArthur is teaching works for salvation while Ryrie is teaching equally another gospel and both call their positions "grace."

I think you need to reconsider your own words when you admitted they are inseparable. They have always been inseparable and always will be. Where there is no true repentance of sin there has been no true conviction and where there has been no true conviction there can be no faith in Christ as there is nothing to believe in Christ for if you are still in love and embracing sin.

However, there has been, is and shall be the Biblical order "repent AND believe" because that is the logical order in regard to their relationship to each other. When you TURN FROM something you are at the same time TURNING TO something else. There is no middle ground as you cannot be facing both ways as the same time.

I Corinthians 15:3-4 is no different than Acts 2:38-40 between the phrases "repent and be baptized" and "received and were baptized" as repentance is inseparable from faith (receiving) and to do one is to do the other and there is NO TRUE gospel salvation without both and repentance logically precedes faith and faith and neither can be separated from the gospel.

 

[savedbymercy]

An act of Sovereign Mercy !

Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

New Birth or Regeneration of any individual is an act of of Mercy, not a offer of mercy. It is stated here that its according to His Mercy that He saved the Elect, by New Birth. Its also stated that God will have mercy on whom He will have Mercy, mans will or effort does not dictate whom God has Mercy upon Rom 9:13-16

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

So New Birth or Being born again is governed by that same principle, we did not determine our first birth either, it also was determined by God's Sovereignty. It is insane thinking for one to teach and believe they receive a New Birth or are born again or regenerated because of an act they do , like believe ! For New Birth or Regeneration in scripture is described also in what is a metaphor and that is a Creation! Scripture says Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. cp Acts 15:7

That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

The word for created in Isa 43:7 is the Hebrew word bara' and means:

to create, shape, form

a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)

1) of heaven and earth

2) of individual man

3) of new conditions and circumstances

4) of transformations

b) (Niphal) to be created

1) of heaven and earth

2) of birth

3) of something new

4) of miracles


Now notice of the varied meanings of the word that one of them is of birth !

So its not unscriptural to classify a New Birth as a New Creation. Paul writes in Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

And so we have depraved and sinful men claiming to become a New Man by an act of their freewill, they assisted or cooperated with God in His Creation..

Now I can understand why the Man of Sin sits in the Temple of God saying that he is God, because he shares in a prerogative that Only God should have, and that is to be the Creator. In Isa it is said of God, that all whom are called by His Name, that is to be a Christian, that He Created for His Glory. Those who teach they are Born again because of a decision they made, an exercises of their choice and freewill, call God a Liar and boldly proclaim that they played a part in their being created and so they share the Glory that belongs only to God.. Isa 42:8

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Those in Acts 2:38 are not believers but lost people asking what they should do.

They may not have been believers right then, but they had been quickened with spiritual life, they were born sheep ready to be fed. They were seeking spiritual instruction because of spiritual life being given them..

Peter instructing them to repent was so that the evidence of them having been given repentance already by their Risen Saviour may be Manifested or evidenced. Acts 5:31

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[DHK]

Paul tells the Hebrews under the New Covenant that "repentance" is fundementally inseparable from "faith" and part of the foundation of New Covenant doctrine (Heb. 6:1).

Actually this is what I have been trying to say all along.
Repentance is inseparable from faith.

 

[savedbymercy]

Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

2 Cor 5:17

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15

15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

To create is to bring something into existence that had not a being before, So New Birth or Regeneration if answers it figure, must mean something brought into existence; And yet proud man will insist that they contributed to their creation, that they had a choice in the matter ! That is equivalent to saying they had a choice to be formed in the womb Job 31:15

Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb !

God declares, All who are called by His Name [ Christian], He created them for His Glory Isa 43:7

7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

"Even everyone that is called by my name…
That is called by the name of God, a son or daughter of his; or by the name of Christ, a Christian; whoever belongs to the Lord, whom he calls by his name; and who, being called by his grace, call upon his name, make a profession of his name, and serve and worship him: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, yea, I have
made him;
all which is expressive of the power and grace of God, in the regeneration and conversion of his people; which is a creation, a formation, a making them for himself, for the glory of his grace, and to show forth his praise; and therefore he will gather them in, and bring them into a body together, into a church state, that this end may be answered. " John Gill


The Freewillers and Arminians oppose God in this Truth, by insisting that their wills had part in their being created His People, What utter Blasphemy and Arrogance !

 

[DHK]

The Freewillers and Arminians oppose God in this Truth, by insisting that their wills had part in their being created His People, What utter Blasphemy and Arrogance !

First, you quote John Gill. The people of his day considered him a very learned man, a scholar of his day, but they also considered him a borderline heretic. Quoting him as your authority doesn't get you into anyone's good books.
Secondly, accusing people of blasphemy is against the BB rules. Please refrain from doing so. If you can't, then don't post.
Third, it is sad that through your posts it seems as if you can only see one half of the story of Christ; one half of the great theme of soteriology.

In other words you don't know what to do with John 3:36 do you?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)
--By the wording of John 3:36 it appears that Jesus was one of those "freewillers" you speak of.
"Whosoever will may come." I believe Jesus said that. You have a problem believing him??

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk:

Quoting him as your authority doesn't get you into anyone's good books.

Sorry, but he is not my authority, no where did I say he was. It does not matter what people think of him, but what I look at is whether or not what he stated lines up with Truth at that particular time. Whenever in the future I refer to any writer, its not because I consider them my Authority, pleas get that straight in your mind.

Secondly, accusing people of blasphemy is against the BB rules.

That was not my intention, but i will keep that in mind !

In other words you don't know what to do with John 3:36 do you?

I have dealt with that verse in another thread topic, this thread is about Ye must be born again, not Jn 3:36. Now can you address the points in post 276 that I made with scripture ?

 

[DHK]

dhk:

Sorry, but he is not my authority, no where did I say he was. It does not matter what people think of him, but what I look at is whether or not what he stated lines up with Truth at that particular time. Whenever in the future I refer to any writer, its not because I consider them my Authority, pleas get that straight in your mind.

That was not my intention, but i will keep that in mind !

I have dealt with that verse in another thread topic, this thread is about Ye must be born again, not Jn 3:36. Now can you address the points in post 276 that I made with scripture ?

I note that you take most Scripture out of its context trying to make it mean something that it doesn't. That is what I observe most.
So I will address one verse, and demonstrate that for you.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
--This a verse oft taken out of context and oft misinterpreted as you have done. Consider the context:

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (2 Corinthians 5:16)
--Corinth was a port city on a major trading route that attracted all types of people, both Jew and Gentile, rich and poor. When people got saved they came from many varied backgrounds. Therefore Paul says, "We know no man after the flesh." What does this mean?
It means that whatever your background was and is in your life as a secular person, has no bearing on who you are "in Christ." The banker is on the same plane as the janitor and must fellowship with him as a brother in Christ. He can't disfellowship him because the banker is rich and the janitor is poor. The Jewish Christians must have fellowship with the Gentile Christians. Ethnic backgrounds don't matter any longer. We are all one in Christ. There should no longer be any divisions.

We know no man after the flesh--that is what he was before he was saved. It doesn't matter. We are one in Christ. There should be no divisions. That is what Paul is speaking about here. Having set the context here he goes on to verse 17:

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
Therefore (a continuation from verse 16), if any man be in Christ he is a new creature. How? His past as a banker, janitor, Jew, Gentile, rich, poor, etc. is gone. We don't know them in that respect any longer. All things are become knew. We know each other in the local church in a new way. We know each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. We are all the same, on an equal footing. We are on par with one another. We don't look at each other as prosperous businessmen, as one's who have disabilities, as people according to their ethnic backgrounds. Those things don't matter any longer. Those are the old things that are passed away. It is not speaking of your old sinful life and your new nature in Christ. You have taken the verse out of context.

 

[savedbymercy]

Be careful man is not God only He creates !

Contrary to the logical conclusions of those who believe in a freewill salvation, creation or new creation was not accomplished through offers of mercy. If Faith comes before New Birth or Regeneration, and they mean becoming a New Creation, then according to some, man's faith is the cause of becoming a new creature or newbirth, and since creating work is only a work of God, for only God can Create, then man makes himself God !