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Ye must be born again !
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Dr. Walter
New Member
The text also indicates that Nico should have known being a teacher (v. 11) and the new birth was taught several times before this under the metaphor of circumcision OF THE HEART or a new heart
savedbymercy
New Member
Regeneration and being born again !
I find it to be no better time to include in this thread the Truth of regeneration while witnessing to the need of being born again. The truth of the matter is this, in order to be born again, one must first be regenerated. I know many think they are the exact same thing, but they are not, however they are related or connected to one another. Only those being regenerated by their Union with Christ shall be born from above . Now understand this, Regeneration is corporate or collective, and occurred all at once for the entire body of Christ or seed together, by virtue of their union with the risen Christ.
The New Birth is Individual and occurs to each of the regenerated appointed time by God. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2
1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die
This applies equally to spiritually being born. The word born here is the hebrew word yalad and means:
to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
to beget
The word is used in Isa 66:8
8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
Each of the regenerated shall be brought forth in their New Birth. Remember when James wrote James 1:18
18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
The word beget here means to bring forth, James here is describing the New Birth of those who had been regenerated. The word of Truth, which is the Gospel brings this New Birth to light or to manifestation.
Again, Regeneration is corporate, its the sum total of every member of Christ seed, having been in Him when died, was buried, and risen again, they rose together with Him, that was their regeneration from the dead as well, and their being seated together with Him in the Heavenlies [above]. You see when Christ laid down His Life for the Sheep, the Life of the church was laid also [ 2 Cor 5:14], and when He took it again and rose from the dead [Jn 10:17], it was a reproduction or regeneration. Isa 26:19
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
This is the describing in prophecy, the regeneration of Christ [after death] and His Church in Union with Him see [ Eph 2:6] !
I find it to be no better time to include in this thread the Truth of regeneration while witnessing to the need of being born again. The truth of the matter is this, in order to be born again, one must first be regenerated. I know many think they are the exact same thing, but they are not, however they are related or connected to one another. Only those being regenerated by their Union with Christ shall be born from above . Now understand this, Regeneration is corporate or collective, and occurred all at once for the entire body of Christ or seed together, by virtue of their union with the risen Christ.
The New Birth is Individual and occurs to each of the regenerated appointed time by God. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2
1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die
This applies equally to spiritually being born. The word born here is the hebrew word yalad and means:
to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
to beget
The word is used in Isa 66:8
8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
Each of the regenerated shall be brought forth in their New Birth. Remember when James wrote James 1:18
18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
The word beget here means to bring forth, James here is describing the New Birth of those who had been regenerated. The word of Truth, which is the Gospel brings this New Birth to light or to manifestation.
Again, Regeneration is corporate, its the sum total of every member of Christ seed, having been in Him when died, was buried, and risen again, they rose together with Him, that was their regeneration from the dead as well, and their being seated together with Him in the Heavenlies [above]. You see when Christ laid down His Life for the Sheep, the Life of the church was laid also [ 2 Cor 5:14], and when He took it again and rose from the dead [Jn 10:17], it was a reproduction or regeneration. Isa 26:19
19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
This is the describing in prophecy, the regeneration of Christ [after death] and His Church in Union with Him see [ Eph 2:6] !
davidoregonJr
New Member
savedbymercy
New Member
Can you deal with this scripture I have presented ?
This may have something to do with the resurrection, but nothing to do with the new birth. Jesus says: You must be born again. This doesn't answer that at all.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
You may not get the answer you are seeking from him. It appears he is spamming this same message over and over in several boards over the internet with no interaction.
‘Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do you not know these things?”’ (John 3:10). What our Lord is saying is that if Nicodemus was such a great Old Testament teacher, he would know what He was talking about instead of being so totally confused and dumbfounded. Therefore there must be some reference in the Hebrew Scriptures to the New Birth and to Water and Spirit which would have helped Nicodemus to understand; otherwise our Lord’s rebuke would have been unfair. With this in mind let us consider the following verses:-
‘For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take your heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them’ (Ezek 36:24ff).
“Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts, and in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom. Purge [N.I.V., ‘cleanse’] me with hyssop and I shall be clean; wash me and I shall be whiter than snow ……..Hide Your face from my sins, and blot out my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me (Psalm 51:6,7,9,10).
Here, in these two texts, we surely get a preview of the work of God, the Holy Spirit, in the New Birth. It is a two-fold work of water and Spirit: an inward cleansing from sin and idolatry, and a renewal of the heart and spirit for future obedience. That it is a spiritual cleansing rather than baptism that is meant in these passages is indicated by the mention of hyssop in Psalm 51. This is not some ancient Hebrew soap, as I first thought when I read the Psalm as a very young Christian, but rather the sprig of a plant. On the day of the Passover, the Israelites were instructed (Exod.12:22) to dip the hyssop in the blood of the slain Passover lamb and sprinkle it on the lintel and the doorposts of their houses. Therefore, to be cleansed with hyssop is to be washed in the blood of the Lamb (Heb.9:11ff; Rev. 7:14). No outward ablution could ever cleanse us from moral ‘filthiness and idolatry’. We need a cleansing which works from within.
In the New Testament, one gets an inkling of this two-fold process in verses such as 1Cor. 6:11 or Eph. 5:26, but the clearest expression is found in Titus 3:3-5. Here Paul has been telling Titus not to be too harsh to the Cretan converts, but to show a little gentleness and humility. ‘For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another…..’ that’s what Paul and Titus were like before they were born again. ‘…..But when the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit’. What is the nature of the New Birth? It is a birth of Water and Spirit; the washing away of indwelling sin and corruption, and renewal by God, the Holy Spirit.
Taken from http://marprelate.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/the-new-birth-4-its-nature/
Steve
Excellent point. Paul knew it (that OT Saints were born of the spirit):
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4
By the time Isaac was weaned he had experienced the birth from above. David said that he was made to hope while on his mother's breast.
[edit] But I think many are a little harsh in judging ol' Nick. He was attracted to Christ you know (He that doeth the truth cometh to the light). He did help with Christ's body after the crucifiction. I think Christ may have been gouging him a little with those words, "Art thou the teacher of Israel and knowest not these things".
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>The text also indicates that Nico should have known being a teacher (v. 11) and the new birth was taught several times before this under the metaphor of circumcision OF THE HEART or a new heart
Then Jesus should have referred to the metaphor of circumcision OF THE HEART or a new heart if he wanted Nico to understand.
Then Jesus should have referred to the metaphor of circumcision OF THE HEART or a new heart if he wanted Nico to understand.
The reference to Nicodemus as a teacher is very clear.
The new birth has nothing to do with "the metaphor of circumcision of the heart or a new heart."
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk:
It has to do with regeneration, which New Birth proceeds from. These are Truths you probably have not been exposed to before, but they have been there in the scripture. Notice the word together in Isa 26:19
19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
This is not talking about New Birth, for that is an individual thing, it does not occur together with Christ. This regeneration I am speaking of occurred together with Christ, He and His Members, His body were regenerated[or raised up] together, at the same time.
It has to do with regeneration, which New Birth proceeds from. These are Truths you probably have not been exposed to before, but they have been there in the scripture. Notice the word together in Isa 26:19
19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
This is not talking about New Birth, for that is an individual thing, it does not occur together with Christ. This regeneration I am speaking of occurred together with Christ, He and His Members, His body were regenerated[or raised up] together, at the same time.
Dr. Walter
New Member
The metaphor of circumcision of the heart most certainly does refer to the new birth (Col. 2:11-13). The phrase "born from above" cannot be found in the Old Testament at all.
First this is proven by the fact that separation from eternal life, which is eternal death is described as a condition of blindness of heart and darkness of mind:
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Second, the change of heart and mind is an act of God in regard to initial cause or first cause described as inward circumsion:
De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Third, the SPIRITUAL regenerate state is described in metaphorical terms of inward circumcision of heart:
Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Ro 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Fourth, circumcision and baptism as external ordinances are parallel symbols of the same inward regenerate spiritual state:
Col. 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Paul's intent here is to show that both circumcision and baptism as external symbols are designed by God to outwardly convey or symbolize the reality of a regenerate inward condition. Note the words "putting off the body of the sins of the fleshy BY CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST" and "raised from the dead" and that the former unregenerate state is describe as "being dead in your sins and THE UNCIRCUMCISION OF YOUR FLESH, hath he quickened"
Hence, to be unregenerate or "dead in your sins" is equal here to "the uncircumcision of your flesh" whereas in reverse to have the "circumcision of Christ" is to be "raised from the dead" and "quickened."
Those who teach baptismal regeneration make the very same mistake as those in Acts 15:2 making the external symbol of an internal reality the sacramental cause of the internal reality when in fact circumcision and baptism are only designed to convey symbolically the former inward realty of the new birth.
First this is proven by the fact that separation from eternal life, which is eternal death is described as a condition of blindness of heart and darkness of mind:
Eph. 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Second, the change of heart and mind is an act of God in regard to initial cause or first cause described as inward circumsion:
De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Third, the SPIRITUAL regenerate state is described in metaphorical terms of inward circumcision of heart:
Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Ro 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Fourth, circumcision and baptism as external ordinances are parallel symbols of the same inward regenerate spiritual state:
Col. 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Paul's intent here is to show that both circumcision and baptism as external symbols are designed by God to outwardly convey or symbolize the reality of a regenerate inward condition. Note the words "putting off the body of the sins of the fleshy BY CIRCUMCISION OF CHRIST" and "raised from the dead" and that the former unregenerate state is describe as "being dead in your sins and THE UNCIRCUMCISION OF YOUR FLESH, hath he quickened"
Hence, to be unregenerate or "dead in your sins" is equal here to "the uncircumcision of your flesh" whereas in reverse to have the "circumcision of Christ" is to be "raised from the dead" and "quickened."
Those who teach baptismal regeneration make the very same mistake as those in Acts 15:2 making the external symbol of an internal reality the sacramental cause of the internal reality when in fact circumcision and baptism are only designed to convey symbolically the former inward realty of the new birth.
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savedbymercy
New Member
Define word regeneration !
In coming to a biblical understanding of the word regeneration, we shall define the word. Its used only Twice in the NT :
Matt 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
The word in the greek is the feminine noun paliggenesia:
) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration
a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death
Its made up of two greek words palin which means:
anew, again
a) renewal or repetition of the action
b) again, anew
And the word genesis which means:
source, origin
a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated
2) used of birth, nativity
3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life
It also means generation as in Matt 1:1
1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
So the word can mean a New Generation, A new beginning, A New existence, or origin, A New source, a New reproduction.
Again, the New Birth is a outcome of this Regeneration.
One of the definitions of regeneration is :
a renewal or restoration of life after death
This Our Lord experienced, in His resurrection.
Acts 3:15
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 13:34
And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Rom 6:9-10
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
I could multiply scriptures, but the point is to show that in the sense of restoration of life after death, Christ experienced a regeneration.
I believe this is what He meant in Matt 19:28, when He says in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the Throne of His Glory.
When did this occur if not after His resurrection ? Scripture plainly intimates that after His suffering, His death and resurrection, He shall enter into His Glory. Lk 24:26,20
26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Suffer what things ? see vs 20
20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
When He rose from the Dead He became Lord of both the dead and the Living Rom 14:9
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
This word revive means the same as regeneration, a restoration of life after death.
After Christ's humiliating death, and His resurrection, He entered into His Mediatorial Glory as both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
He was invested with [from the Father] all power in both Heaven and Earth Matt 28:19
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
If these things were not entering into His Throne of Glory as stated in Matt 19:28, I don't know what is ?
And if so, thats the regeneration He spake of.
Now one more thing about the Matt 19:28, in the original there is no punctuation, that is the translators supply them as they deem it best to their Judgment. In light of that, there should have been a period after the words followed me instead of the comma.
And so it would read Matt 19:28
28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me. In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus was specifically telling His Disciples, the ones who followed Him, the Twelve, that they would be Co Rulers with Him in the Spread of His Gospel Kingdom throughout the Earth. Perhaps what Jesus had in mind was this what He spake unto them earlier in Matt 16:17-19
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
This I believe is a direct fulfillment of Isa 32:1
1Behold, a king[Jesus Christ] shall reign in righteousness, and princes[The Twelve] shall rule in judgment.
Now the main point hitherto is that Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead, is a regeneration and entering into His Glory !
In coming to a biblical understanding of the word regeneration, we shall define the word. Its used only Twice in the NT :
Matt 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
The word in the greek is the feminine noun paliggenesia:
) new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration
a) hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as a renewal or restoration of life after death
Its made up of two greek words palin which means:
anew, again
a) renewal or repetition of the action
b) again, anew
And the word genesis which means:
source, origin
a) a book of one's lineage, i.e. in which his ancestry or progeny are enumerated
2) used of birth, nativity
3) of that which follows origin, viz. existence, life
It also means generation as in Matt 1:1
1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
So the word can mean a New Generation, A new beginning, A New existence, or origin, A New source, a New reproduction.
Again, the New Birth is a outcome of this Regeneration.
One of the definitions of regeneration is :
a renewal or restoration of life after death
This Our Lord experienced, in His resurrection.
Acts 3:15
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 13:34
And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Rom 6:9-10
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
I could multiply scriptures, but the point is to show that in the sense of restoration of life after death, Christ experienced a regeneration.
I believe this is what He meant in Matt 19:28, when He says in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit on the Throne of His Glory.
When did this occur if not after His resurrection ? Scripture plainly intimates that after His suffering, His death and resurrection, He shall enter into His Glory. Lk 24:26,20
26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Suffer what things ? see vs 20
20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
When He rose from the Dead He became Lord of both the dead and the Living Rom 14:9
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
This word revive means the same as regeneration, a restoration of life after death.
After Christ's humiliating death, and His resurrection, He entered into His Mediatorial Glory as both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
He was invested with [from the Father] all power in both Heaven and Earth Matt 28:19
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
If these things were not entering into His Throne of Glory as stated in Matt 19:28, I don't know what is ?
And if so, thats the regeneration He spake of.
Now one more thing about the Matt 19:28, in the original there is no punctuation, that is the translators supply them as they deem it best to their Judgment. In light of that, there should have been a period after the words followed me instead of the comma.
And so it would read Matt 19:28
28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me. In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus was specifically telling His Disciples, the ones who followed Him, the Twelve, that they would be Co Rulers with Him in the Spread of His Gospel Kingdom throughout the Earth. Perhaps what Jesus had in mind was this what He spake unto them earlier in Matt 16:17-19
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
This I believe is a direct fulfillment of Isa 32:1
1Behold, a king[Jesus Christ] shall reign in righteousness, and princes[The Twelve] shall rule in judgment.
Now the main point hitherto is that Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead, is a regeneration and entering into His Glory !
Dr. Walter
New Member
You need to go further in your definition as regeneration is a SPIRITUAL change from SPIRITUAL death to SPIRITUAL life. First define what SPIRITUAL death involves in regard to the human nature. Spiritual life, resurrection is simply the opposite in nature. You will find that a close study of Epheisans 2:1-3 and 4:18.
What is changed within man that makes him Spiritually alive from being spiritually dead? Spiritual death is defined in Ephesians 4:18 as being "alienated from the life God THROUGH the blindness of the heart" as well as being in spiritual "darkness" in the mind. Hence, regeneration is a reversal of that condition of heart and mind.
However, you need to go further. What is involved in this reversal of the inward state of man's nature?
What is changed within man that makes him Spiritually alive from being spiritually dead? Spiritual death is defined in Ephesians 4:18 as being "alienated from the life God THROUGH the blindness of the heart" as well as being in spiritual "darkness" in the mind. Hence, regeneration is a reversal of that condition of heart and mind.
However, you need to go further. What is involved in this reversal of the inward state of man's nature?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Good and fair question however I would ask you does this change occure in a singular nature of man or does it add a second waring nature to the one already present?
The new birth does not proceed from regeneration. That is simply a Calvinistic bias of looking at Scripture, but it is wrong. If you want to know what the new birth means forget about Isaiah 26:19 and other such OT Scriptures and open your Bible to John chapter 3 and start studying verses 1 to 11 where Jesus himself teaches what the new birth is.
Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
You must be born again.
--What does that mean? Jesus does give the answer, but you have to dig a bit.
(BTW, you can stop with the condescension any time now.)
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk:
Thats your opinion, of which I do not agree, and of which I am giving biblical support why. It does not matter if you disagree.
Thats your opinion, of which I do not agree, and of which I am giving biblical support why. It does not matter if you disagree.
You do add a bit of humor here.
You take a position on the order of regeneration and the new birth.
1. Then you come right out and ask for a definition of regeneration. You don't know what it is.
2. Neither can you define what the "new birth" is, nor do you know how to be born again, and yet,
3. You make a definitive and dogmatic statement that the new birth proceeds out of regeneration.
This is truly astounding. Almost gnostically astounding.
As a great teacher once said: "How can these things be?""
Dr. Walter
New Member
My understanding of scripture is that we come into this world with a totally depraved nature. Not that we are as bad as we can get but every aspect is corrupted by sin and capable of greater corruption. We are born into this world with a corrupted nature that is at war with God.
When Jesus speaks of being "born again" or "born from above" he is speaking of receiving an additional nature that is not derived from the first birth but one that is derived from God the Holy Spirit. As a Trichotomist, I believe that the human spirit is the object of regeneration and this regeneration involves the union of God's Spirit with the human spirit, thus making the human spirit the sanctuary of the Holy Spirit within man. This union of God's Spirit with the Human spirit restores the faculties of the human spirit to a righteous condition. That is, I believe the human spirit is the seat of conscience, the seat of intution and the seat of spiritual union with the spiritual world. Previous to the new birth the conscience was hardened, the intuition and spiritual union was Satanic (Eph. 2:2-3) and therefore the conscious self (soul = heart, volition, will) was captive to sin and the body was its vehicle for self-sin-expression. In regeneration the human spirit is washed, cleansed fromthe defling presence of sin and created in true holiness and righteousness and thus the spirit's faculties of conscience, intuition and union come under the control and power of the indwelling Spirit of God. This regeneration of the human spirit removes "indwelling sin" from the spirit of man unto the body of man (Rom. 7:14-18). Hence, after regeneration of the spirit of man there are two Laws at work within the saved man where he is challenged to either walk "after the flesh" or "after the spirit." The renewed spirit of man has no power in and of itself to overpower indwelling sin which works through the yet unredeemed appetites of the human body. These appetites are not sinful within themselves but are subject to temptations by indwelling sin. Hence, indwelling sin wars against the righteous inclinations of the human spirit and the human soul is the battle ground between these warring laws. This is why the Apostle calls upon the believer to "put off" the flesh and "put on" the spirit and it is the area of the soul where this putting off and putting on occurs. We put of sinful THINKING and DESIRES and CHOICES and put on righteous THINKING and DESIRES and CHOICES.
This warfare over the conscience self (mind, heart, will) is not a warfare to be lost or saved in regard to obtaining or losing eternal life or obtaining or losing entrance to heaven or obtaining or losing justification before God. This is a battle for obtaining present victory over sin, present blessings, present fellowship, present chastening, present growth, present usefulness and future rewards. In short, this is a battle to save or lose the PRESENT LIFE for the glory of God. This is a battle only the child of God experiences and it is aptly described in both Romans 7:18-25 and Galatians 5:16-24.
20 Now if I (soul) do that I [soul] would not, it is no more I [soul] that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I [soul] would do good, evil is present with me [soul].
22 For I [soul] delight in the law of God after the inward man [spirit]:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Twice Paul says "it is no more I that do it"! He is not shirking responsibility for his sins. He is simply restricting within himself from whence is the source of sin. It is no longer "I" the conscious self (mind, heart, will) nor the "inward man" (spirit) but it is "sin that dwelleth in me" that is in "my members" or the body. The conscience self "I" (mind, heart, will) is inclined after the law of the inward man and thus this is the "law of the mind" versus the law after the flesh.
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