savedbymercy
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the bib
No its not.
No its not.
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Ye reject salvation by grace !
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The term "saved" in Epheisans 2:8 contextually refers to regeneration as verse 5 demonstrates! Prove that I am wrong!
The phrase "saved through faith" demonstrates that regeneration is "through faith"! Prove that I am wrong. The perfect tense "saved" demands it was a completed action "THROUGH FAITH." The perfect tense "saved" demands this completed action "THROUGH FAITH" stands completed up to the present act of writing. Hence, if "saved" or "regenerated" occurred at all it had to occur in conjuction with faith because that completed state cannot be added or subtracted from, from the point of completion to the present act of writing OR is it is not a completed state!
You are a false teacher and completely ignorant of the scriptures and so all you can do is act like a little parrot and repeat your false UNSUBSANTIATED nonsense. Stop lying! Stop perverting the Scriptures. If you believe I am wrong here then PROVE IT by sound exegesis and expositional thoughts based upon the context, grammar and text.
1. "saved" in Ephesians 2:8 refers to regeneration in verse 5 as regeneration in verse 5 is first described as "by grace are ye saved"
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Hence, verse 5 proves that the phrase "by grace are ye saved" refers to regeneration as verse 8 simply repeats this reference to being quickened. Furthermore, verse 10 also refers to regeneration - "created in Christ Jesus".
2. The developmental thought in verses 8-10 is very simple and very clear
a. This is how you are quickened - "by grace are ye saved through faith"
b. The source is not yourself or works - and that not of yourselves...not of works
c. The source is God - "it is a gift of God.....For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus"
d. It is not of "good works" - because we are first created in Christ Jesus "UNTO good works.
SGM, show us that you are a Bible based expositor of scripture. Demonstrate, point out where my arguments are not based upon the text, grammar and direct statements made here by Paul!
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
The Elect do believe through Grace after they are regenerated. Faith is given in the New Birth or Regeneration as I have shown many times already 1 Pet 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Faith is a fruit or evidence of Regeneration. Being Regenerated is also being saved Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
The Elect are experimentally saved by New Birth or Regeneration, then they believe.
So only a saved person can and does believe . It is pretty simple. That is why Paul told the Jailor, to believe on Christ and thou shalt be saved. He had to be already saved by regeneration, in order to believe, so, his believing was evidence of him being saved, as Paul stated !
The Elect do believe through Grace after they are regenerated. Faith is given in the New Birth or Regeneration as I have shown many times already 1 Pet 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Faith is a fruit or evidence of Regeneration. Being Regenerated is also being saved Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
The Elect are experimentally saved by New Birth or Regeneration, then they believe.
So only a saved person can and does believe . It is pretty simple. That is why Paul told the Jailor, to believe on Christ and thou shalt be saved. He had to be already saved by regeneration, in order to believe, so, his believing was evidence of him being saved, as Paul stated !
savedbymercy
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Works means Faith here !
Jesus made this statement to the unbelieving jews ! Jn 8:39
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
What did Jesus mean by the works of Abraham ? Why He simply meant the Faith of Abraham. Faith and Works are interchangeable.
The works of Abraham's Children is to walk in the steps of Abraham Rom 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
The Faith of Abraham was not without works, for James says of saving Faith James 2:21-24
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham offered Isaac by Faith Heb 11:17
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:22 gives us a insight about Abraham's Faith. It was wrought with works. The word wrought is the greek word: Sunergeo and means:
to work together, help in work, be partner in labour to put forth power together with and thereby to assist
They go together, a saving Faith, a Living Faith is wrought with works, so Jesus could say Jn 8:39
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works or Faith of Abraham.
I agree with James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
So again, those of you who twist and pervert Eph 2:8 to somehow mean that one is saved because of their faith or act of believing, then you are saying that I am saved because of my works , and contradict the very teaching of Eph 2:8-9..
Jesus made this statement to the unbelieving jews ! Jn 8:39
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
What did Jesus mean by the works of Abraham ? Why He simply meant the Faith of Abraham. Faith and Works are interchangeable.
The works of Abraham's Children is to walk in the steps of Abraham Rom 4:12
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
The Faith of Abraham was not without works, for James says of saving Faith James 2:21-24
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham offered Isaac by Faith Heb 11:17
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:22 gives us a insight about Abraham's Faith. It was wrought with works. The word wrought is the greek word: Sunergeo and means:
to work together, help in work, be partner in labour to put forth power together with and thereby to assist
They go together, a saving Faith, a Living Faith is wrought with works, so Jesus could say Jn 8:39
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works or Faith of Abraham.
I agree with James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
So again, those of you who twist and pervert Eph 2:8 to somehow mean that one is saved because of their faith or act of believing, then you are saying that I am saved because of my works , and contradict the very teaching of Eph 2:8-9..
Neither 1 Peter 1:3 or Titus 3:5 prove your point at all! Faith is obtained just as the new heart is obtained by grace and God never gives a NON-believing heart as that is precisely the kind of heart already in the unregenerated.
Drawing and coming are identical in action (Jn. 6:44-45, 64-65). Believing and being born again are identical in action (1 Jn. 5:1).
You are simply wrong because you are contradicting the clear statements in scripture. It is impossible to draw something to yourself without it coming at the very same time. It is impossible to give a righteous heart without it being a believing heart because non-belief is sin as whatsoever is not of faith is sin. The Greek grammar of Ephesians 2:8, 1 Jn. 5:1 repudiate your theory completely.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Sure they do. The Elect are born again or Regenrated by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
This was according to God's Mercy !
Now Titus tells us that the Elect were according to God's Mercy saved by Regeneration Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
The Saved Man Believes the Gospel when it is Preached to them ! Pretty clear !
Sure they do. The Elect are born again or Regenrated by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
This was according to God's Mercy !
Now Titus tells us that the Elect were according to God's Mercy saved by Regeneration Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
The Saved Man Believes the Gospel when it is Preached to them ! Pretty clear !
sinner receive jesus and get saved by believing in the jesus of the Gospel!
NONE are saved by God apart from receiving jesus by faith!
NONE are saved until that, so your statement is really nonsense, and heretical!
savedbymercy
New Member
False Gospel and works salvation !
If this is a false gospel, then you need to post a testimony how you were saved, showing that it was not by faith; not by trusting Christ; not by receiving Christ as Savior. If you cannot show or demonstrate how you became a Christian why do you have any business posting on this board? Now, please give your salvation testimony.
Just repeating unbiblical nonsense does not make it Bibical or sensible! There is only one true gospel and it is always received by faith and Never consists of our works or a consequence of works but it is a gospel "OF GRACE" received of faith which is "BY GRACE" (Rom. 4:16).
You are theologically inept! You cannot deal with Biblical evidence so you simply make personal attacks upon the one presenting the evidence - another cultic sign.
Romans 4:1-6 clearly and explicitly and repeatedly deny that faith is of works but is of grace and you have not yet demonstrated your position by Romans 4:1-6 or demonstrated the evidence I have presented is contrary to that text! Why? Because you are inept as a Bible teacher and incapable of anything but RJP and making personal attacks on the messenger.
savedbymercy
New Member
I can't find it. Please direct it to me. Or you could always give it again.
savedbymercy
New Member
There is not one scripture that states Believing is not a work, for it is a work of the mind. The word work that the Holy Spirit uses is ergon and means:
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
If you refuse to bow to the Authority of scripture, you shall be held accontable before God !
savedbymercy
New Member
Readers, do you know of any TRUE child of God that would refuse to share their own salvation testimonty when asked?
Readers, does not the Scriptures tell us "Let the Redeemed of the Lord say so"? Paul repeated his testimony over and over again as recorded in Acts (9, 22, 26) and in his epistles (Philip. 3; Gal. 1; etc.) and yet SBM refuses to give his testimony?
Lost people do not have any testimony to give that conforms to the Scriptures.
unless you have a definite point in time received the Lord jesus and were saved by the Grace of God, how are you even sure that you have been saved by the real Jesus and the real Gospel?
savedbymercy
New Member
Works salvation ! The elect were Justified before God by the Death of Christ, the resurrection proved it Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
That is your reply to Yeshua1 who said:
"unless you have a definite point in time received the Lord jesus and were saved by the Grace of God, how are you even sure that you have been saved by the real Jesus and the real Gospel? "
If Yeshua is right you are not saved.
Those on the Day of Pentecost believed and were saved on the Day of Pentecost, at a certain hour.
The Ethiopian eunuch said to Philip "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God," and he was saved, either right then or just before then. But that was an affirmation or confession of his salvation.
Paul believed on the way to Damascus. "Who art thou Lord?" The Lord revealed himself, and Paul believed.
It is believe, and believe, and believe. All the way through it is believe and be saved. There is no other way.
"I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes unto the Father BUT BY Me."
Don't you believe Christ?
savedbymercy
New Member
Yeah, I respond to him by telling him what the scripture says, not my experience.
The elect were Justified before God by the Death of Christ, the resurrection proved it Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.
Heavenly Pilgrim
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HP: As I recall, there were times even Jesus said nothing to those demanding He speak and give an answer. Some are only trying to find fault. Why would one placate them, simply fueling their desire to falsely entrap another, or what would necessitate one given such a one an answer when their motivation is so clearly obvious to all?
Besides, this is NOT a forum to judge anothers relationship with the Lord, unless one feels it their destiny to share with others comments like, "I sin every day," or "I cannot help but sin etc." or "it is a sin to say one is free from all sin."
Our focus, as much as lieth within us, should be upon the truth as we see it from the Word of God and not simply judging anothers personal walk.
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