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Ye reject salvation by grace !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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And what was the immediate response to Biblicist to post 32 in that thread?
Perhaps he is more accurate then you are.
Yes, you have stuttered and contradicted yourself! There is no MIDDLE state between unbeleif and belief! You are either one or the other. To claim as you do that God gives a new heart but that new heart is not a believing heart WHEN it is given is to teach that it is given as an unbelieving heart but only becomes a believing heart subsequently to being given.
You cannot argue that faith resides in that heart but is not active as that is nothing but mental gynastic nonsense. Either you have or do not have a believing heart - period - as there is no middle ground between unbelief and belief.
By teaching such a MIDDLE ground you are teaching the same thing as Arminians teach about the possibility of the depraved nature of man being neutralized between total depravity and salvation where the will becomes free of the depraved nature under the influence of the Spirit of God so that it can choose between life and death.
Likewise, there is no MIDDLE ground between an unbelieving heart and a believing heart - it is either or. By saying faith is present in the new heart but not activated is saying it is a heart still in UNBELIEF.
1 John 5:1 with the present tense participle "beleiveth" and the perfect tense verb "born" demands simeltaneous action of faith and new birth together rather than faith subsequent to new birth as you teach or new birth subsequent to faith as Arminians teach.
So yes "dude", you stuttered all over the place!
What is this duplicated nonsense?? The "regenerated heart" IS inclusive of "born of God" not merely a consequence. Indeed giving of a new heart is descriptive of regeneration just as the phrase "circumicsed in heart" is descriptive of regeneration.
Apparently you believe so, as you deny that WHEN the new heart is given it IS a believing heart at that very moment! You believe that it only CONTAINS the ability to beleive and so belief is SUBSEQUENT to the giving of a new heart and thus what is given is an UNBELIEVING heart that SUBSEQUENTLY becomes a believing heart.
Is there any list of the people prepared by God ?
1% of people to be saved, 99% of them not to be saved.
If we tried to preach the Gospel and try to save the people whom God has not planned to save, we are working hard against God, and become rebellious against God.
I want to know the list of the people whom God has decided not to save, so that I may not waste time and avoid being rebellious against God.
John Wesley well said Predestination theory is Blasphemous as it claim God predestined the most people not to believe in Jesus and to be wicked.
ADOLF Hitler was not predestined by God, to kill the Jews!
I believe the Salvation by Grace, but it doesn't mean that God predestined it, but I believe the Truth of Jesus and therefore I am saved by Grace thru Faith in Jesus.
1% of people to be saved, 99% of them not to be saved.
If we tried to preach the Gospel and try to save the people whom God has not planned to save, we are working hard against God, and become rebellious against God.
I want to know the list of the people whom God has decided not to save, so that I may not waste time and avoid being rebellious against God.
John Wesley well said Predestination theory is Blasphemous as it claim God predestined the most people not to believe in Jesus and to be wicked.
ADOLF Hitler was not predestined by God, to kill the Jews!
I believe the Salvation by Grace, but it doesn't mean that God predestined it, but I believe the Truth of Jesus and therefore I am saved by Grace thru Faith in Jesus.
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savedbymercy
New Member
The Regenerated man, when newly born has not yet heard the Gospel, so technically he cannot be a unbeliever or in unbelief. It is only after the word of God has been spoken, and then rejected, does God count it as unbelief. Jesus said to the jews Jn 15:22
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
Condemnation is to those who hears the word and believe it not ! Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Now, the New Man, the Regenrated Man must first Hear the Gospel to receive it Rom 10:13-14
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
The New Born Babe in Christ is not born condemned, neither is it born a believer, but when God sends it the message of the Gospel of their Salvation, it shall believe !
man is born seperated from God though, spiritually dead, found by God in Adam, so he cannot decide to accept/reject the lord jesus unless God enables him to do such, and until he places faith in jesus, dead in his sins!
Are you saying then that the elect has never been in unbeleif at any time? That seems to be what you are saying. If the regenerated man is not in unbelief "when newly born" that means you are saying previously he was never in unbelief. If the regenerated man is not in unbelief "when newly born" he never will be in unbelief because the regenerated man has seeing eyes and hearing ears and thus cannot reject the gospel.
Are you saying that "unbelief" is restricted merely to hearing and rejecting the gospel? Are you saying the elect before regeneration never rejected the gospel at any time?
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Yes, Not that New Man born of Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23; Eph 4:24 ! Now that man of the Flesh or born of corruptible seed, yes !
The New Man was never in Unbelief, He may not have yet believed, for the simple reason he had not yet heard, But he was Created in Righteousness and True Holiness, and cannot sin !
When the New Man hears the Gospel, the Truth, He cannot but Believe it, because He is of the Truth Jn 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
James 1:18
18Of his own will begat[bring forth] he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
The Gospel of their Salvation, the Word of Truth Eph 1:13 brings forth their New Life !
Agreed !
At this Juncture I am speaking about the Gospel, however, the New Creation cannot sin Period, because it is born of God !
No , I am not saying that ! I am strictly speaking of the New Man, the Man Created in Righteousness and True Holiness Eph 4:24, the Man born of Incorruptible Seed, the Word of God 1 pet 1:23 ! That is who the Gospel of Salvation is Preached to 1 Pet 1:23-25
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Remember Peter is speaking to those who had been begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3..
The Gospel is Preached to those who are Born again as a word of Salvation !
Yes, Not that New Man born of Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23; Eph 4:24 ! Now that man of the Flesh or born of corruptible seed, yes !
The New Man was never in Unbelief, He may not have yet believed, for the simple reason he had not yet heard, But he was Created in Righteousness and True Holiness, and cannot sin !
When the New Man hears the Gospel, the Truth, He cannot but Believe it, because He is of the Truth Jn 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
James 1:18
18Of his own will begat[bring forth] he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
The Gospel of their Salvation, the Word of Truth Eph 1:13 brings forth their New Life !
Agreed !
At this Juncture I am speaking about the Gospel, however, the New Creation cannot sin Period, because it is born of God !
No , I am not saying that ! I am strictly speaking of the New Man, the Man Created in Righteousness and True Holiness Eph 4:24, the Man born of Incorruptible Seed, the Word of God 1 pet 1:23 ! That is who the Gospel of Salvation is Preached to 1 Pet 1:23-25
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Remember Peter is speaking to those who had been begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3..
The Gospel is Preached to those who are Born again as a word of Salvation !
savedbymercy
New Member
Works Salvation !
Your Position is irrational and Unbiblical for the following reasons.
1. Paul says it is what was "dead" that was quickened - Eph. 2:1 and what was dead was in unbelief and disobedience - Eph. 2:2-3; 4:18-19.
2. It is oxymoronic to say the hearing ear does not see and the seeing eye does not see but that is exactly what you are saying in regard to the new creation.
3. 1 John 5:1 grammatically demands that faith occurred simeletaneous with the new birth as the verb "born of God" is perfect tense and "beleiveth" is a present tense participle demanding identifical action with the verb.
4. Paul says that the elect were "called by our gospel" and this is the effectual call - regeneration (2 Thes. 2:14) and this agrees perfectly with 1 Thes. 1:4-5 and James 1:18). This is the word of truth that God regenerates the elect - for our gospel came not to you in word only but in power in the Spirit and in much assurance" - hence, no gap time between regeneration and gospel light.
5. To say that the new man does not believe at the point of regeneration is to be in unbelief as there is no MIDDLE position between belief and unbeleif.
6. Your quotation of John 10 does not apply to the regenerated man for several reasons. (a) The new man has light but Jesus applied that text to those who have no light, (b) the very nature of regeneration is being TRANSLATED from darkness to light (Col. 1:13) - with seeing eyes and hearing ears.
7. It is the Elect that must believe and it is the elect which was in unbelief and needed quickening and so you cannot separate regeneration from what was spiritually dead and in unbelief from what is quickened and brought to faith. According to your logic there is nothing dead that was quckened and nothing in unbelief that was brought to faith as you make the "elect" and what was regenerated two different entities.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
The Elect in their Adamic Nature, are Dead, however they are quickened by New Birth by a Life they Had in Christ, and that Life is communicated to them by the New Birth. However, that Old Man Adam is still present with them, but that quicked Life is that Life of having been born out of Incorruptible Seed ! The Old man is still dead because of sin Rom 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Before New Birth, that is all the Elect were, a Dead Biody of Sin !
But the Spirit Gave them Life [quickened them] because of Imputed Righteousness, Christ's Righteousness on their Behalf, demands a New Life !
The Elect in their Adamic Nature, are Dead, however they are quickened by New Birth by a Life they Had in Christ, and that Life is communicated to them by the New Birth. However, that Old Man Adam is still present with them, but that quicked Life is that Life of having been born out of Incorruptible Seed ! The Old man is still dead because of sin Rom 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Before New Birth, that is all the Elect were, a Dead Biody of Sin !
But the Spirit Gave them Life [quickened them] because of Imputed Righteousness, Christ's Righteousness on their Behalf, demands a New Life !
WHEN does the Holy Spirit quicken them though?
What point in time were they saved by God, and how were they saved by God?
savedbymercy
New Member
You have ignored everything I have stated so far, so go back and meet each point one by one that I have previously made in this thread, show me that you comprehend exactly what my points are, though you may not agree, then will I answer your question !
So you cannot answer a simple question?
Wrong! Your theory demands that the whole human nature in its entirety remains unchanged at the new birth but something in addition is added to the mix.
In Romans 7:14-25 there is the personal pronoun "I" that is distinguished from both "the flesh" and "the inward man." It is this "I" that represents the conscious self (mind, will, emotions) that is the battle ground between "the law of sin" in the flesh and "the inward man" which delights in the law of God. Take not that it is "I" who delights in the law "after the inward man" and so "I" is not the "inward man" or the new creature.
It is this "I" that has gone from unbelief to beleif whereas the "inward" man or "new creation" existed in faith and it is the source of faith expressed by "I" or the conscious self.
I think he believes he was born-again before the foundation of the world. At least that is what I have gathered from his post.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
No it's Right !
Yes A New Man is Created ! Just as one was born out of corruptible seed, he was born again out of incorruptible seed !
1 Pet 1:23 That which is Flesh, or that birth out of Flesh, is not born again, but an entirely different New Creation is born, and that of God !
There is a Old Man which the elect is by Nature, and then the New Man which He is by Regeneration ! Eph 4:22-24
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The True Christian is comprised of Two Men, in One Dual Character. He is comprised of a man born out of the flesh, and a Man born of the Spirit, each man born out of respective heads, That they previously existed in One Head Adam, the Other Head being Christ. They were born out of Adam the corruptible seed, and born out of Christ, the incorruptible Seed, the Logos of God !
No it's Right !
Yes A New Man is Created ! Just as one was born out of corruptible seed, he was born again out of incorruptible seed !
1 Pet 1:23 That which is Flesh, or that birth out of Flesh, is not born again, but an entirely different New Creation is born, and that of God !
There is a Old Man which the elect is by Nature, and then the New Man which He is by Regeneration ! Eph 4:22-24
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
The True Christian is comprised of Two Men, in One Dual Character. He is comprised of a man born out of the flesh, and a Man born of the Spirit, each man born out of respective heads, That they previously existed in One Head Adam, the Other Head being Christ. They were born out of Adam the corruptible seed, and born out of Christ, the incorruptible Seed, the Logos of God !
No, its wrong because regeneration is "through faith" not apart from faith.
The term "saved" in Ephesians 2:8 refers to the act of being quickened as the same phrase "for by grace are ye saved" is first introduced in verse 5 as explanatory of being quickened by God:
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
.......8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Hence, the term "saved" in verses 5 and 8 refer to regeneration by the Spirit which by its very nature is punctillar in action rather than a progressive linear act. You are either dead or alive and those quicked are no longer dead but instantly alive at the point of quickening.
In verse 8 "saved" represents the Perfect tense in the Greek text which means it was a completed action in the past that stands complete right up to the present. The paraphrastic contruction where the present tense linking verb is joined with the perfect tense emphasizes the continuance of this completed perfect state.
The point is that this completed state was accomplished "THROUGH" faith not apart from faith and not in addition to faith. This grammatically proves that regeneration is INSEPARABLE from faith. There is no such thing as a regenerated non-believer as regeneration cannot be accomplished except "THROUGH" faith. Neither is there such a thing as an unregenerated believer because faith cannot occur apart from regeneration.
The grammar in 1 John 5:1 teaches the very same thing. The perfect tense verb "born" and the present tense participle "beleiveth" grammatically demands that the action of believing is simeltaneous with the action of new birth.
Whether you like it or lump it does not change the grammar.
that would mean that His mother was visited by the Holy Spirit, and KNOW only mary had that happen of all women who ever lived!
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