Ye reject salvation by grace !

[percho]

I guess it's your turn, then. Would you please explain the words from John the Baptist, Paul, and even Jesus Himself that say "believe and ye shall be saved"?

Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Now that is what Jesus had to say about why they did not believe he was the Christ. He had told them and his works testified him to be so yet because they were not his sheep they did not believe. Now his sheep when he called them followed (believed) him.

Paul understood this. Paul Also did not believe Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ. He without doubt heard Stephan's last sermon and he still did not believe. Why, for God had yet to call him. He was a sheep but a sheep that had not been called and was still in unbelief. Jesus himself called Paul on the road to Damascus. Paul asked who are you Lord and Jesus told him I am Jesus. Paul then passed from unbelief to belief, he became a believer and in three days would receive the Holy Spirit which was given him because of faith or by faith of Jesus, which is exactly what Gal. 3:22 states. Paul put it this way also. 1 Tim 1:13,14 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did ignorantly in unbelief. (And after belief) And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

The faith and love is in and of Christ Jesus. We love because he first loved us.

Example the very fact the Philippian jailer asked the question should tell us he was being called Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
That is when they heard about the faith by which they were about to be given the promise of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Don]

I'm not sure how much you agree with savedbymercy; but you do a much better job of explaining his position than he does.

This is absolutely the supralapsarian position: that God's elect are the only ones that will hear and respond to His call, to the scriptures. That they are the only ones that He calls to; all others are destined for eternal fire.

But I don't agree with this position. Trying to define belief and faith as some type of work ignores the obvious: it's what we believe in that saves us, not merely that we believe. No one here, as far as I can tell, is placing any trust in their personal belief; they're believing that Jesus is God in the flesh, who died on the cross as the propitiation for our sins, and rose from the dead, fulfilling scripture. They're believing/trusting that He did all the work, that there's nothing more that can be done.

That's the sort of difference that's described in Hebrews10:39, where it talks about being of those that believe to the saving of the soul. Even the devils believe, and tremble; and I think we can agree that they shall not see Heaven.

I understand your position in light of "my sheep hear my voice"; but that same passage can be read as "believers hear and understand." Those that don't believe cannot hear, nor understand.

 

[savedbymercy]

yesh

Were the Elect already born in a state no longer sinners

I have already answered that question many times. If you want to know what I believe READ the THREAD !

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

However there are many examples, both Biblical and otherwise.

1. Samson prayed. (work)

Rabbit Trail ! There is not one scripture in all the bible that states that believing is not a work, because it is, it is a work of the mind, an act man performs!

 

[The Biblicist]

dhk



Rabbit Trail ! There is not one scripture in all the bible that states that believing is not a work, because it is, it is a work of the mind, an act man performs!

Rom. 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth

To those who have spiritual eyes and ears this text is clearly obvious that faith is not of works but of grace but it is self-evident that you have no spiritual ability to understand the Scriptures (1 Cor. 2:14) and so the truth of God's word is foolishness to you and your mind is at enmity with the God of the bible and not subject to His law (Rom. 8:7) and until God gives you eyes to see and ears to hear (Deut. 29:4) and a heart to receive (Ezek. 36:26) you will remain blind and in ignorance.

You don't even understand the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ as you pervert and distort it by separating and excluding the redemptive work of the Father and the Spirit from the work of Christ.

 

[percho]

I'm not sure how much you agree with savedbymercy; but you do a much better job of explaining his position than he does.

This is absolutely the supralapsarian position: that God's elect are the only ones that will hear and respond to His call, to the scriptures. That they are the only ones that He calls to; all others are destined for eternal fire.

But I don't agree with this position. Trying to define belief and faith as some type of work ignores the obvious: it's what we believe in that saves us, not merely that we believe. No one here, as far as I can tell, is placing any trust in their personal belief; they're believing that Jesus is God in the flesh, who died on the cross as the propitiation for our sins, and rose from the dead, fulfilling scripture. They're believing/trusting that He did all the work, that there's nothing more that can be done.

That's the sort of difference that's described in Hebrews10:39, where it talks about being of those that believe to the saving of the soul. Even the devils believe, and tremble; and I think we can agree that they shall not see Heaven.

I understand your position in light of "my sheep hear my voice"; but that same passage can be read as "believers hear and understand." Those that don't believe cannot hear, nor understand.

I am not trying to explain his position. I am showing from scripture what I believe the scripture says. I had to Google supralapsarian to see what that meant.

I believe it to be clear from this scripture and from others that this is one of the main things that God through his Son Jesus is doing.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

I believe I have shown in other post that the devil brought death to planet earth before Adam was created. It was through the first man Adam that in the fulness of time God would bring into the world his Son for the purpose above. Also in that purpose would be the redemption of those to whom he who had the power of death brought death to. By doing this God would destroy the devil Satan and death and be glorified in the redeemed. This would be done by the Son sired by God brought into the world as flesh and blood through the virgin Mary living a sinless life, would die for sin. He would be dead and without hope except for one little thing. Prior to the creation of the first man Adam a sinner BTW God who cannot lie had made a promise: the
hope of eternal life. Not the promise of but the promise in hope of. Was this promise for the first man Adam a sinner or for the last Adam the sinless one who would die for sin? Faith is the substance of things hoped for. In hope of eternal life. Of course I understand you nor most others on these boards think Jesus the God could die and need to be given eternal life however he self emptied. Of what? Is the following statement made by Jesus the absolute truth or not? John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; How does that quickened life come? V21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth: If Jesus the God could not die then sin is not paid for. And once he paid for sin if the Father had not raised him from the dead all who have died would still be without hope. 1C15:18 Gal 1:1.

It is evident from scripture God is not "saving" all now nor offering "salvation" to all presently. Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

They are sheep yet they are presently blind and cannot understand, just as Paul was before that faithful day. The day that through the faith of Jesus, God called him by Jesus.

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Not to take all of them nor to see which of them have faith but to take out of them, a people for his name.

The passover Lamb died because of sin.

The feast of unleavened bread a sabbath six days and then a sabbath. There is something about this span of time that implies a continuance of. 1 Cor 5:7,8 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth. I believe 1 John 9 is that continuance: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Fifty days later Pentecost -----a sabbath-- The feast of firstfruits---
Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Romans 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
V24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

Gal 3 tells us we received the firstfruits of the spirit by the faith which was at one moment was not here and we were under a schoolmaster and then at another moment we were no longer under a schoolmaster because the faith had come.

What took place at that moment?

There are still four more sabbath feasts. Do you think "salvation" will come to any during those feasts? Those blinded in part maybe?

 

[DHK]

dhk

Rabbit Trail ! There is not one scripture in all the bible that states that believing is not a work, because it is, it is a work of the mind, an act man performs!

Simply your opinion--unsubstantiated.
I have given you far greater evidence that faith is not a work. What do you do with that evidence? Ignore it!
Deny, Deny, Deny! You are in a complete state of denial and simply state over and over again that which is false in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Rom. 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth

That scripture passage says nothing about Believing not being a work !

Because Believing is a work, it is an act or deed that man performs in the mind ! It's Just the New Man that serves the Law of God that does it. Rom 7:22,25

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Believing on Christ is a Spiritual Law, a Command that is complied to by the New Mind of the Covenant Heb 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The New Covenant Laws Primarily are 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now instead of Abraham being Justified before God by his works in the flesh, He had it revealed to Him that he had been Justified by Christ's Righteousness, and with His Regenerated Mind, He believed, a Spiritual work of the Mind ! So it was the saved man Abraham that believed in Rom 4:5. His Righteousness was not his Faith or his believing, but his Righteousness was Christ, the object of His Faith ! A Righteousness had been Revealed to Him by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

God Preached it to him here Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

That refers back to Gen 12:1-3

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

You best take note of this explanation, because I will not explain it again, I will just refer you to this post !

 

[DHK]

You best take note of this explanation, because I will not explain it again, I will just refer you to this post !

Likewise:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1837979&postcount=194

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



That scripture passage says nothing about Believing not being a work !

Only to a person who can neither read or understand what they are reading. Look at verses 3- 4 and tell me with a straight face that is not a qualifying statement to that faith is not of works but of grace just as verse 16 asserts faith is "by grace."

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


Look at it! The same Greek word translated "counted" in verse 3 is translated "reckoned" in verse 4 and both have reference to the same exact subject - imputed righteousness by faith in verse 3. Here is Paul's point, what was "counted" in verse 3 (righteousness by faith) was not "reckoned" by works in verse 4 but by grace! If you can't see that you simply can't see anything. Verse 16 again denies faith is of works but rather is "by grace." Hence, YOU ARE WRONG and so is your interpretation.

Because Believing is a work, it is an act or deed that man performs in the mind !

Wrong! Have you read Romans 10:8??? "WITH THE HEART man believeth unto righteousness"! Mental assent is not faith or don't you understand that? Demons give mental assent with the mind but that is not faith.

It's Just the New Man that serves the Law of God that does it. Rom 7:22,25

You don't even understand the abc's of salvation! Look at what you said above! Notice you said "serve"? You don't understand the difference between "faith" and "faithfulness" and therefore you don't understand the difference between justification by faith and faithfulness by sanctification! The very same word "pistos" is used but it is the context that determines whether the term should be translated "faith" or "faithfulness." If the context is justification then it is "faith" because in justification faith is PASSIVE in that it simply receives and rests upon the revealed promise of the finished work of Christ and that is why it is "by grace." In the context of SERVING or the MIND or in the context of progressive sanctification is means "Faithfulness." The difference is between receiving what CHRIST DID FOR YOU versus what YOU DO FOR CHRIST! Go back and learn the abc's of salvation.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Again the context is not justification but sanctification. Again note Paul's use of the term "SERVE" rather than "JUSTIFY." Go back and learn your abc's about the difference between justification and sanctification.

Believing on Christ is a Spiritual Law, a Command that is complied to by the New Mind of the Covenant Heb 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

You don't even understand what you are quoting. Ask youself who is doing the acting in this text, God or man? It is the writing of the laws into both the mind and heart that CREATES justifying faith - as it is a creative act of God and not a work of man. Furthermore, this is a descriptive way to describe giving of a NEW HEART which is a believing heart by its very created condition straight from God as God does not give UNBELIEVING hearts. Sinners already got an unbelieving heart - read Deut. 29:4 and learn it.

The New Covenant Laws Primarily are 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Absolutely amazing! Who taught you basic hermeneutics? Nobody I guess! Go back and learn basic hermeneutics. The basics are (1) who is talking; (2) Who is being addressed; (3) what is the subject of discussion!!

He is not talking to the lost! He is talking to those already born of God, professed children of God. He is talking to those already justified by faith in the gospel. Have you ever read the second part of 1 John 5:13?? He is telling those who already have initially been justified by faith in the gospel that they already have eternal life and THAT THEY MIGHT BELIEVE. This is a command to BELIEVERS not unbeleivers to the justified by faith not the unjustified by faith.

Now instead of Abraham being Justified before God by his works in the flesh, He had it revealed to Him that he had been Justified by Christ's Righteousness, and with His Regenerated Mind, He believed, a Spiritual work of the Mind !

What an absolute Joke! Give me a break! You don't know the difference between regeneration and justification?????? Apparently not. REgeneration is a CREATIVE work of God that occurs within man whereby blindness is replaced by sight and deafness is replaced by hearing and there is no such state or thing as SIGHT that is not seeing or EARS that are not hearing and therefore with seeing and hearing IS light and that is the NEW BELIEVING HEART given by God as a direct creative act in direct connection with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So it was the saved man Abraham that believed in Rom 4:5. His Righteousness was not his Faith or his believing, but his Righteousness was Christ, the object of His Faith ! A Righteousness had been Revealed to Him by the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

Go back and learn the abc's of regeneration! There is no such thing as a regenerated unbeliever any more than there is such a thing as God giving an unbelieving heart! There is no such thing as God giving UNSEEING eyes or giving DEAF ears. The lost man has all this before God regenerates - gives a new heart.

God Preached it to him here Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

That refers back to Gen 12:1-3

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

You best take note of this explanation, because I will not explain it again, I will just refer you to this post !

Go learn Hebrew Grammar. Genesis 12:1 as well as Genesis 15:6 uses the PERFECT TENSE translated "had" as both passages simply reaffirm what happened back in the land of refers to what happened back in Genesis 11.28-31where and when Abraham was regenerated in connection with the gospel being EFFECTUALLY preached to Abraham by God. Abraham beleived this in UR of the Chaldees. What happened in Genes. 12 and 15 simply reaffirmed it just as 1 John 5:13 says that initial faith can be reaffirmed as we continue in knowledge and grace of that initial act.

You confuse justification with sanctification and thus confuse "saved" with "serve" and confuse "faith" with "faithfulness." Go learn your abc's of salvation and then come back to the table.

Get a hold of this because I am not going to repeat it again! I will just refer you back to this post.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Only to a person who can neither read or understand what they are reading. Look at verses 3- 4 and tell me with a straight face that is not a qualifying statement to that faith is not of works but of grace just as verse 16 asserts faith is "by grace."

That verse says nothing about believing not being a work !

Wrong! Have you read Romans 10:8??? "WITH THE HEART man believeth unto righteousness"! Mental assent is not faith or don't you understand that? Demons give mental assent with the mind but that is not faith.

Believing is a work, Faith is a work !

You don't even understand the abc's of salvation!

That's You. Faith or Believing in Christ is the evidence of having been given a New Heart !

Absolutely amazing!

It's not amazing to me that you are in darkness, and cannot see that Believing is a Spiritual Command to a Spiritual People. 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

A Commandment, a Law, a Precept, a Statue, all those terms are interchangeable, and once God gives the New Heart in New Birth, it keeps the commands of God Ezk 36:26-27

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

He is not talking to the lost! He is talking to those already born of God,

Of course, that's who God commands to Believe the Gospel of their Salvation, the saved, those who are saved by Christ's Blood, those who are born of God. God does not command that which is born of the Flesh to Believe on Christ, but that New Man which was Begotten Again by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead !

Why would God command any lost man to believe in Christ ? If he is Lost, evidently Christ is not his Saviour !

The Gospel informs the Elect child of God of their Salvation, then they believe Eph 1:13

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


The rest of your comments are worthless

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



That verse says nothing about believing not being a work !



Believing is a work, Faith is a work !



That's You. Faith or Believing in Christ is the evidence of having been given a New Heart !



It's not amazing to me that you are in darkness, and cannot see that Believing is a Spiritual Command to a Spiritual People. 1 Jn 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

A Commandment, a Law, a Precept, a Statue, all those terms are interchangeable, and once God gives the New Heart in New Birth, it keeps the commands of God Ezk 36:26-27

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.



Of course, that's who God commands to Believe the Gospel of their Salvation, the saved, those who are saved by Christ's Blood, those who are born of God. God does not command that which is born of the Flesh to Believe on Christ, but that New Man which was Begotten Again by the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead !

Why would God command any lost man to believe in Christ ? If he is Lost, evidently Christ is not his Saviour !

The Gospel informs the Elect child of God of their Salvation, then they believe Eph 1:13

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


The rest of your comments are worthless

See post #210 - I told you that I wasn't going to correct your false notions over and over again.

 

[savedbymercy]

See post #210 - I told you that I wasn't going to correct your false notions over and over again.

Believing is a work !

 

[The Biblicist]

Believing is a work !

See Post#210

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



That verse says nothing about believing not being a work !

You are simply a very dishonest man! it does not take a genius to understand that verses 3-5 is an explicit denial that imputation of righteousness by faith is of works but is of grace. It simply takes third grade reading comphrehension skills.

It does not take a genius to see that works is pitted in direct contradition to faith in verse 5 "that worketh not BUT believeth" but only third grade reading comphrehension skills.

It does not take a genius to see that Romans 4:16 explicitly states that faith is "by grace" but only third grade reading comprehension skills.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established and Paul denies faith is of works three times in the same chapter.

Hence, only one conclusion can be drawn. You are simply a dishonest man and your dishonesty is due to a seared conscience by doctrine of demons (1 Tim. 4:1-2).

See Post #210

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

You are simply a very dishonest man!

Your the one that is dishonest, the vereses says nothing about believing not being a work, because it is, it is something man does, it is a deed !

Believing the Gospel is a work, a doing, a deed !



James 1:25

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Now what does James mean here by the Perfect Law of Liberty ? He is speaking of the Law of Moses, as it has been fulfilled by Christ, as explained in the Gospel. Gal 3:23-26; Rom 10:4. So the Perfect law of Liberty in James is also the Word of Truth [The Gospel] James 1:18

18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Eph 1:13

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This word of Truth of the Gospel does include Christ's fulfillment of the Law in behalf of all that He did die for Rom 10:4, it gives believers a sensible liberty of having been set free by Christ Isa 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Jn 8:36;

36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Gal 5:1

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

So now a look into this Perfect Law of Liberty, being a Look into the Gospel, and a continuing therein, a continuing in the Truth as indicated back in Jn 8:31-32

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth[word of Truth] shall make you free.

Then are ye blessed in your deed, or your doing, or the work , which can only mean or point back to the act or deed or work of believing or looking ! The word deed is the greek word poiēsis and means a doing or performing, a obedience to a law !

James actually calls this Look as being a doer of the work ! Yes, Believing is a doing of a work, a deed !

The word deed is also from the root poieō, and means do, of which the Jailor asked What must I Do to be saved ? Acts 16:30, and of course Paul commanded him to do something, which was to believe. The act or deed he must do to be saved was to believe. Now it cannot be denied that believing is not a deed that a person does, or how could James under inspiration of God call it a deed, a work ? So again, if anyone of us is claiming to get saved because they believed as in Acts 16:31-32, then we are claiming to get saved by our work, our deed. For the greek word for work in scripture is ergon and means:


business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Also translated deed Rom 3:20

I have by the Grace of God, proven from scripture once again that believing is a work, a deed, that man performs James 1:25 !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



Your the one that is dishonest, the vereses says nothing about believing not being a work, because it is, it is something man does, it is a deed !!

This is all you can repeat like a little mocking bird because you will not dare HONESTLY and FORTHRIGHTLY deal with what Romans 4:3-5 actually says. You will not deal with HIS WORDS so you SUBSTITUTE his words for YOUR WORDS.

You are simply not an honest man and the absolute proof is that you REPLACE Paul's words with YOUR WORDS and will not do any expository rebuttal because YOU CAN'T.

 

[savedbymercy]

This is all you can repeat like a little mocking bird because you will not dare HONESTLY and FORTHRIGHTLY deal with what Romans 4:3-5 actually says. You will not deal with HIS WORDS so you SUBSTITUTE his words for YOUR WORDS.

You are simply not an honest man and the absolute proof is that you REPLACE Paul's words with YOUR WORDS and will not do any expository rebuttal because YOU CAN'T.

Believing is a work, a deed, a doing by man, but it's Just the New Man !

 

[The Biblicist]

Believing is a work, a deed, a doing by man, but it's Just the New Man !

No, its the new heart "with the heart man beleiveth"! Faith is "obtained" by grace rather than what we do (2 Pet. 3:1). Faith is of grace not of works (Rom. 4:3-5;16). Christ is the author not the "new man"! The new man is the source of FAITHFULNESS not justifying faith. Believing is the work of God, it is HIS WORK (Jn. 6:44-45,64-65). You fail to distinguish between justifying faith and sanctifying faithfulness - they are not the same.

 

[DHK]

Believing is a work, a deed, a doing by man,

This is a recording. Please hang up and call again.