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You Are Chosen! Believe it or Not! Like it or Not!

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Winman

Active Member
Amy.G said:
What about the disciples? Were they just riding on Jesus' coat-tails?

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Did Jesus choose them just hoping they would believe in Him?
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The disciples were chosen to spread the gospel. That is what Jesus chose them for. That said, he chose eleven because he knew they would believe and be faithful to death, he chose Judas to fulfill prophecy that he would betray him.

Read the verse again, does it say he chose them to be saved? NO, it says he chose them to go and bring forth fruit, that is, other believers.

Reading without comprehension is useless.
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Amy.G said:
What about the disciples? Were they just riding on Jesus' coat-tails?

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Did Jesus choose them just hoping they would believe in Him?
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It is significant that not one passage of Scripture has been presented to contradict those in the OP. John 15:16 alone is ample proof that God elects those He will bring to Salvation in Jesus Christ.
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Winman said:
The disciples were chosen to spread the gospel. That is what Jesus chose them for. That said, he chose eleven because he knew they would believe and be faithful to death, he chose Judas to fulfill prophecy that he would betray him.

Read the verse again, does it say he chose them to be saved? NO, it says he chose them to go forth and bring forth fruit, that is, other believers.

Reading without comprehension is useless.
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You are adding your bias into Scripture. Not good Winman.

What does Jesus Christ mean when He said: Ye have not chosen me.

You insist that you chose Jesus Christ of your own free will. Now explain what Jesus Christ meant.
 
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Winman

Active Member
OldRegular said:
It is significant that not one passage of Scripture has been presented to contradict those in the OP. John 15:16 alone is ample proof that God elects those He will bring to Salvation in Jesus Christ.
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You don't get it, quoting a bunch of scripture does not prove your doctrine correct. I would never contradict any scripture, I know that it is all true.

It is your INTERPRETATION of scripture that is error.

You could paste any verse in the Bible, and no one could refute it, because it is truth. It is your interpretation of that verse that would be correct or error.

For a perfect example, look at John 15:16 that Amy just posted. She interpreted that verse to say the disciples were chosen to be saved. Her interpretation is error, that is not what the verse says. The verse says the disciples were chosen to go and bring forth fruit, that is, other believers.

The verse is perfectly true, but Amy's interpretation was complete error.
 
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percho

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Amen OR, there is nothing new under the sun.

God called Abraham. God did not call Haran nor Nahor.

Because God called Abraham, then Abram, Abraham was a believer.

Abraham, in the land of the heathen, the son of an idol worshiper all in unbelief then God called him unto belief.


It is the same today as it was yesterday.
 
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Winman

Active Member
percho said:
Amen OR, there is nothing new under the sun.

God called Abraham. God did not call Haran nor Nahor.

Because God called Abraham, then Abram, Abraham was a believer.

Abraham, in the land of the heathen, the son of an idol worshiper all in unbelief then God called him unto belief.

It is the same today as it was yesterday.
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Where do the scriptures say that God never called Haran or Nahor? You have read into scripture what it does not say. You may possibly be correct, but you cannot simply assume that. Jesus said MANY are CALLED, but FEW are CHOSEN.
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Winman said:
You don't get it, quoting a bunch of scripture does not prove your doctrine correct. I would never contradict any scripture, I know that it is all true.
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Your freewill doctrine contradicts Scripture.

Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Read it Winman! The Scripture states That God Chose You, Winman, Before the Foundation of the World. That is about as simple as it can get, no conditions at all, no mention of foreknowledge, Nothing, just that God Chose US. Read it and Give God the Glory!
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
percho said:
Amen OR, there is nothing new under the sun.

God called Abraham. God did not call Haran nor Nahor.

Because God called Abraham, then Abram, Abraham was a believer.

Abraham, in the land of the heathen, the son of an idol worshiper all in unbelief then God called him unto belief.


It is the same today as it was yesterday.
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:godisgood: even when we were dead in trespass and sins!
 
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Winman

Active Member
OldRegular said:
Your freewill doctrine contradicts Scripture.

Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Read it Winman! The Scripture states That God Chose You, Winman, Before the Foundation of the World. That is about as simple as it can get, no conditions at all, no mention of foreknowledge, Nothing, just that God Chose US. Read it and Give God the Glory!
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I addressed this in detail. It says we were chosen IN HIM. Then I showed you from Romans 16:7 that no man is IN HIM until they believe in time. Then I explained that through God's foreknowledge he could foresee who would believe (and thus be IN Christ) in time, and chose them.

Calvinists get it, they know very well that the non-Cal view of foreseen faith makes perfect sense. They also know this will refute their doctrine, so they do everything they can to explain it away.

Yes, God chose before the foundation of the world those he foresaw would believe in time. That is what "foreknowledge" means, it means to know something before it happens. We are elect ACCORDING (or based upon) the foreknowledge of the Father.
 
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Winman

Active Member
OldRegular said:
All true believers are to spread the Gospel Winman! Now try again. Why did Jesus Christ say: Ye have not chosen me.
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Baloney. John 15:16 does not say Jesus chose the disciples to be saved, it says he chose them to go and bring forth fruit.

You can't simply read into scripture what you want it to say. That is what you are trying to do.
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Winman said:
I addressed this in detail. It says we were chosen IN HIM. Then I showed you from Romans 16:7 that no man is IN HIM until they believe in time. Then I explained that through God's foreknowledge he could foresee who would believe (and thus be IN Christ) in time, and chose them.
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You explained noyhing!

Winman said:
Calvinists get it, they know very well that the non-Cal view of foreseen faith makes perfect sense. They also know this will refute their doctrine, so they do everything they can to explain it away.
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That argument is nonsense Winman. If you believe that God is omniscient then God obviously knows who is going to believe. He would not have to broadcast it again. You simply want to cling to the omnipotence of your freewill.

Winman said:
Yes, God chose before the foundation of the world those he foresaw would believe in time. That is what "foreknowledge" means, it means to know something before it happens. We are elect ACCORDING (or based upon) the foreknowledge of the Father.
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Well at least you believe in the omniscience of God. But your logic is irrational. And you still haven't responded to what is meant by determinate counsel in the following Scripture:

Act 2:23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
 
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OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by OldRegular
All true believers are to spread the Gospel Winman! Now try again. Why did Jesus Christ say: Ye have not chosen me.
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Winman said:
Baloney. John 15:16 does not say Jesus chose the disciples to be saved, it says he chose them to go and bring forth fruit.

You can't simply read into scripture what you want it to say. That is what you are trying to do.
Click to expand...

Just answer the question Winman! Just answer the question!
 
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