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". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

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SheepWhisperer

Active Member
Jesus: My sheep like wheat, so I give them some, and they follow me." Is that what the text says???

No, if you are correct, then ALL sheep would come to Christ; however, the point of the story is that not all do, and those who do, do so because they "know His voice"

You seem to be missing the point by much more than a mile, so I may give up at this point. I don't hold out much hope for a reasonable debate with you.

Brother, I tried to show y'all that, though these Jews were ready to stone Him, and were NOT hearing his "voice" and were NOT his sheep, that Jesus invited THEM to "believe" down in verse 38. The point of the story is that you have to be a sheep to hear his voice and, in verse 38, Jesus tells them HOW to become sheep. Let's read it........

John 10: 38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Brother, please tell me why Jesus would invite lost sinners, "non-sheep" to "believe" if he had no intention of saving them anyway?
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Brother, please tell me why Jesus would invite lost sinners, "non-sheep" to "believe" if he had no intention of saving them anyway?
Because the Gospel call is universal, as we have said over and over and over and over again, but which you can't seem to remember.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
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Its funny how cali's think god disingenuously offers salvation to those who He knows He will not allow to be saved.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Its funny how cali's think god disingenuously offers salvation to those who He knows He will not allow to be saved.
To fulfill all righteousness?

Matthew 3
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

HankD
 

utilyan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Calvinists are so cute.
Boastfully beating their chests in the street so we can all see how humble you are. These public protestations of your own sinfulness. I've seen the Calvinist "I am more pious because I wallow in more self-loathing" game. That's the bit I'm not buying.
No one is suggesting we aren't or weren't all sinners in need of a savior. I just never bought into the Calvinists need to competitively flagellate myself publically, always publically and "humbly" insisting on being the WORST sinner ever. Truth is, you were probably not much worse before you knew Christ than many many many others. Calvinists just love to publically demonstrate their pious self-loathing. I've never bought into the need to do that. It's a private competition betwixt yourselves to demonstrate that you know you were the worst person ever born.
It's a false humility and a conceit.

Can you believe God is only half a jerk that he actually forgave me when I expected him to forgive no one?

Isn't it so shocking and amazing?

" Can you imagine?! He set His love on me, the least deserving creature on the face of the Earth. . ."


That it, its false humility at its worst. They can't even compute how they insult God.

If God has a right to murder, then he probably "wants to" they say.

God has a right to torture others, so he probably does Plus its righteous and good torture.

If God can forgive everyone or forgive no one, then obviously God is not going to forgive some folks.

They project their own evil attitude as the BASE for God's.


God has the sovereignty to do anything he wants the absolute way he wants, he can pick any system, create anything, The punchline he is limited to ONLY DOING CALVINISM.

He couldn't do an Armenian system if he wanted to.

The best question to ask a Calvinist, to point out the utter lack of common sense:
Could God do it another way if he wanted to? (not insisting how he is doing it)

Could God effectively run an Armenian system if he wanted to? A catholic? A Muslim? Jewish?(not insisting how he is doing it)
 

thatbrian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brother, I tried to show y'all that, though these Jews were ready to stone Him, and were NOT hearing his "voice" and were NOT his sheep, that Jesus invited THEM to "believe" down in verse 38. The point of the story is that you have to be a sheep to hear his voice and, in verse 38, Jesus tells them HOW to become sheep. Let's read it........

John 10: 38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Brother, please tell me why Jesus would invite lost sinners, "non-sheep" to "believe" if he had no intention of saving them anyway?

Romans 9 answers your question.

The gospel, like the seed in the parable of the Sower, is promiscuously proclaimed to all men; however, as you know, not all men place their faith in Christ. What we are debating is what or, better yet, who makes the difference. I see a scriptural basis for crediting God with that difference, while you place the credit on the side of man. At the end of the day, this is the disagreement. . .
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No one credits man with making the difference. That is a personal characterization and not a reality. Not an honest on either.
 

Mr. Davis

Active Member
Site Supporter
Because the Gospel call is universal, as we have said over and over and over and over again, but which you can't seem to remember.
The Gospel call is universal. Don't some TULEPs also describe it as the "outward" call that goes out to everyone.
And the "inward" call is for the elect only?
 

SheepWhisperer

Active Member
Romans 9 answers your question.

The gospel, like the seed in the parable of the Sower, is promiscuously proclaimed to all men; however, as you know, not all men place their faith in Christ. What we are debating is what or, better yet, who makes the difference. I see a scriptural basis for crediting God with that difference, while you place the credit on the side of man. At the end of the day, this is the disagreement. . .

The "seed", in the parable of the sower, is the Word of God. The "ground" is the human heart.
The "seed" is viable. Who makes the difference? The condition of the "ground" determines whether viable seed grows or whether it germinates at all.
 

thatbrian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The "seed", in the parable of the sower, is the Word of God. The "ground" is the human heart.
The "seed" is viable. Who makes the difference? The condition of the "ground" determines whether viable seed grows or whether it germinates at all.

I could not agree more!
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
The Gospel call is universal. Don't some TULEPs also describe it as the "outward" call that goes out to everyone.
And the "inward" call is for the elect only?
I don't see a distinction (although some do). The call is the same. It is the response that is different. The lost reject it. The regenerate embrace it.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don't see a distinction (although some do). The call is the same. It is the response that is different. The lost reject it. The regenerate embrace it.
Jesus stated that those who have ears will hear. Hear in the sense of being able to receive and believe in Him.
 

SheepWhisperer

Active Member
TCassidy
I don't see a distinction (although some do). The call is the same. It is the response that is different. The lost reject it. The regenerate embrace it.

TCassidy,
You aren't "regenerated" until the Holy Ghost comes into your heart and makes you a new creature. Regenerate=new creature. And the Holy Ghost doesn't come in until you let Him in. That's how it works.
Look here.....
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Sir, YOU have to "open the door" for Jesus to come into your heart.

Look at this too.......Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

EVERYBODY has an "everlasting door" because everybody is going to spend eternity in either heaven or Hell. So He tells EVERYBODY "lift up your heads ....gates and doors and "let the King of Glory" in.
 
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SheepWhisperer

Active Member
Yes, for unsaved/unregenerated soil is literally hard as rock!

That is correct. "Pride goeth before destruction", hard-hearted pride. Who makes us prideful? WE do. How do we lose that?
Fall at the feet of Jesus with an attitude of "God be merciful to me a sinner".
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sir, You aren't "regenerated" until the Holy Ghost comes into your heart and makes you a new creature. Regenerate=new creature. That's how it works.
Look here.....
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Sir, YOU have to "open the door" for Jesus to come into your heart. And you cannot be "regenerated" until He does.

Look at this too.......Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

EVERYBODY has an "everlasting door" because everybody is going to spend eternity in either heaven or Hell. So He tells EVERYBODY "lift up your heads ....gates and doors and "let the King of Glory" in. Who is the King of Glory? Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit gives you a new heart/mind, and then you will receive Jesus and live!
 

thatbrian

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
That is correct. "Pride goeth before destruction", hard-hearted pride. Who makes us prideful? WE do. How do we lose that?
Fall at the feet of Jesus with an attitude of "God be merciful to me a sinner".

Soil changes itself? Can you defend that from the text in question, please?
 
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