". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

[thatbrian]

He used the word "regenerate" and I was addressing that.

You are wrongly going to a text which was written to Christians to do so. Rev 3 is not an invitaion for salvation. It is the correction of a "lukewarm" church. Read it for yourself. It has nothing to do with unregenerate men being regenerated.

To the Church in Laodicea

14“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

15“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

 

[InTheLight]

That text has nothing to do with regeneration. Look at who it's addressed to, a church!

Yet Ezekiel 36, written to Jews and about Israel's restoration, is about how Gentiles need to be regenerated before they can have faith.

Got it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[SheepWhisperer]

You are wrongly going to a text which was written to Christians to do so. Rev 3 is not an invitaion for salvation. It is the correction of a "lukewarm" church. Read it for yourself. It has nothing to do with unregenerate men being regenerated..............

Sorry bro. verse 20 is speaking to individuals and the verse DOES have to do with salvation which in turn involves "regeneration".

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[thatbrian]

Sorry bro. verse 20 is speaking to individuals and the verse DOES have to do with salvation which in turn involves "regeneration".

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Where are you getting that from? Those words are not in the text.

This is a letter chastising a church. God chastises His children. See Hebrews 12:6 "For the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every son whom he receives.”

I'm aware that you have heard many people misuse and misunderstand this text, but I would urge you not to perpetuate their error, if the truth is of any value to you.

To the Church in Laodicea

[14] “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

[15] “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! [16] So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. [17] For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. [18] I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. [19] Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. [20] Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. (Revelation 3:14–20 ESV)

 

[Jerome]

Historic Particular Baptists exposit that Scripture:

Hanserd Knollys, The World to Come (London, 1681), pp. 35-36

"Secondly, Open your hearts to Christ, when he knocks at the Door of your Souls, and calls you to come to him, to receive him, and let him come into your hearts, and dwell in your hearts by his holy Spirit, and sanctifying Grace, Rev. 3.20. Behold I stand at the Door and knock, if any man hear my voice, and will open the Door, . . I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. If the Sinner be willing to open the door of his heart, Christ will come in by his holy Spirit, and HE will communicate of his Grace to his Soul."

John Bunyan, The Doctrine of the Law and Grace Unfolded (London, 1685), pp. 309-310

"Object[ion]: But, I am afraid the day of Grace is past, and if it should be so, what should I do then?
Answ[er]: . . . .First, doth the Lord knock still at the door of thy Heart by his Word and Spirit? If so, then the day of Grace is not past with thy Soul; for where he doth so knock, there he doth also proffer, and promise to come in and Sup, (that is, to Communicate of his things unto them) which he would not do, was the day of Grace past with the Soul, Rev. 3. 20."

Thomas Killcop, The Pathway to Justification (London, 1660), p. 19

"Obj: There is a passive receiving of Christ without a hand, when God forceth open mans spirit, and powreth in his Son in despite of the receiver.
Answ. This contradicts Christ, who saith, Behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man will open to me, I will come into him and sup with him, and he with me, Rev. 3.20."

Benjamin Keach, The Glory of God's Rich Grace Displayed (London, 1694), p. 386

"O know you, Sinners, this Day, that Jesus Christ, this glorious King, and Prince of the Kings of the Earth, this mighty Saviour is come to your Doors: Behold, I stand at the Door and knock: Rev. 3.20. Will you not open the Door, nor cry to him to help you to open to him, to enable you to believe in him? What do you say, shall the Son of God stand at your Doors, and you not so much as ask, Who is there? Who is at my Door? Shall Christ be kept out of your Hearts, and stand at your Doors, whilst Sin commands the chiefest Room, and has absolute Power over you, and rules in you? How will you be able to look this Blessed Saviour in the Face another Day?"

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Where are you getting that from? Those words are not in the text.

This is a letter chastising a church. God chastises His children. See Hebrews 12:6 "For the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every son whom he receives.”

I'm aware that you have heard many people misuse and misunderstand this text, but I would urge you not to perpetuate their error, if the truth is of any value to you.

To the Church in Laodicea

[14] “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

[15] “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! [16] So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. [17] For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. [18] I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. [19] Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. [20] Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. (Revelation 3:14–20 ESV)

You left out verses 21-22
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Three times in chapter 3, Jesus tells the churches of Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea "he that overcometh" and to Sardis He says........

Verse 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Those words tell me that not everyone in these three churches were saved, born again, children of God. Are you with me? So, I say again; verse 20 is clearly speaking to individuals on a personal level. "If any man open the door" is what the Bible says. And if the Holy Ghost already indwells you, there is no need for you to "open a door so he can come in". And if He does indwell you, you are an "overcomer".

 

[thatbrian]

You left out verses 21-22
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne

I did have to end the quote at someplace. If I want to understand your point correctly, are you asserting that Christ grants salvation to those who overcome? If so, what does overcoming entail?

Could I read John 3:16 as saying, "God so loved the world that whoever overcomes will gain eternal life"?

 

[InTheLight]

I did have to end the quote at someplace. If I want to understand your point correctly, are you asserting that Christ grants salvation to those who overcome? If so, what does overcoming entail?

The "P" in TULIP.
Persevere.
If you do good works from the moment God zaps you with faith and continue with good works showing fruit, thereby proving you are one of the elect, when you die you might go to Heaven.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

I did have to end the quote at someplace. If I want to understand your point correctly, are you asserting that Christ grants salvation to those who overcome? If so, what does overcoming entail?

Could I read John 3:16 as saying, "God so loved the world that whoever overcomes will gain eternal life"?

No, getting saved makes one an overcomer. A saved person will overcome the world

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1 John 5:4

My point was, this chapter does mention salvation of individuals, so it's not just addressing a church. Hence, the verse "behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear...open....I will come in etc. is speaking to individuals. Christ knocks at your "door" and everyone's door.

 

[thatbrian]

No, getting saved makes one an overcomer. A saved person will overcome the world

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1 John 5:4

Do men make themselves born of God?

My point was, this chapter does mention salvation of individuals, so it's not just addressing a church.

The text is addressed to a church. People are in that Church. They are Christ followers. They had left their love of Him and become confident in their wealth. Christ was chastising them for this, and He was promising to dine with them, which is an expression of intimate fellowship and closeness, a closeness they had wandered from. All of these points are directly in the text. Your assertion, however, is not.

You are suggesting that eating/dining and regeneration are the same thing, but you have not made a case for that assertion.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Do men make themselves born of God?

No

............

You are suggesting that eating/dining and regeneration are the same thing, but you have not made a case for that assertion.

No, you can "eat and drink" with Christ only AFTER regeneration

 

[thatbrian]

No





No, you can "eat and drink" with Christ only AFTER regeneration

No


No, you can "eat and drink" with Christ only AFTER regeneration

Right, so we do understand that these folks were regenerated. My work is done here.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The "P" in TULIP.
Persevere.
If you do good works from the moment God zaps you with faith and continue with good works showing fruit, thereby proving you are one of the elect, when you die you might go to Heaven.

Never heard that explain action before ... where did you get that from?

 

[Rippon]

Never heard that explain action before ... where did you get that from?

It's a figment of his over-active imagination and certainly distorts what Calvinists believe. Surprising!

 

[InTheLight]

Never heard that explain action before ... where did you get that from?

It's an amalgamation of statements made on BB by Calvinists over the years.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's an amalgamation of statements made on BB by Calvinists over the years.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Brother, just read Philippians 1:6 and John 10:27-30. That will give you the crux ... oh and Romans 8:35-39

We can discuss this in detail if you wish.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's a figment of his over-active imagination and certainly distorts what Calvinists believe. Surprising!

Patience

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Right, so we do understand that these folks were regenerated. My work is done here.

"Regeneration" can only happen at the moment one is indwelled with the Holy Spirit, when WE "open the door" of our hearts to Jesus. Verse 38 says "any man". So it does not matter if it is a Christian in the church who has been saved 50 years or a lost sinner who just walked in and sat on the back pew; he can "open the door" and then have fellowship with Jesus because he wants to fellowship with all of us... You think that "regeneration" means God enables one to believe the Gospel. that is not what it means. "Regeneration" means the same as becoming a "new creature" where "old things are passed away and all things are become new".

 

[utilyan]

If anyone is completely regenerated they would not die, have disease ect.

Jesus Christ is the exemplar of a (re)generated person.

If you are not walking on water and floating through walls you still sin.

I think we need to hear the definition of REGENERATED from all sides.

Cause if "ALL" means "SOME", "WHOLE WORLD" means "few folks", "Regenerated" could mean "TACOS" for all we know.

 

[thatbrian]

"Regeneration" can only happen at the moment one is indwelled with the Holy Spirit, when WE "open the door" of our hearts to Jesus. Verse 38 says "any man". So it does not matter if it is a Christian in the church who has been saved 50 years or a lost sinner who just walked in and sat on the back pew; he can "open the door" and then have fellowship with Jesus because he wants to fellowship with all of us... You think that "regeneration" means God enables one to believe the Gospel. that is not what it means. "Regeneration" means the same as becoming a "new creature" where "old things are passed away and all things are become new".

Why not look to a passage about regeneration? That might clear things up. Jesus explained it to Nicodemus.