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You can be a Christian and deny essential doctrine

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Covenanter

Well-Known Member
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The converse is also true -

You can uphold all essential doctrine & NOT be a Christian.

The Reformation & the current celebrations are proving that. Luther's rejection of James' letter shows that -
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Now the Lutherans & RCs are agreed on a form of words for justification by faith in Christ. BUT, who is justified? How are sinners saved? Infant baptism?
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
I was bushwhacked before, someone asked a question and I answered it. Rather than rule against the one initiating the discussion, I was punished for responding. Sad
I apologize on behalf of the Admin Team. There are only 3 active Administrators at this time and we are spread pretty thin. We don't always catch the problems. Often times someone will report a post they believe violates the posting rules and we check the post and take action. But we often lack the time to read all the posts in the thread to see what may have triggered the offending post. :)
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I apologize on behalf of the Admin Team. There are only 3 active Administrators at this time and we are spread pretty thin. We don't always catch the problems. Often times someone will report a post they believe violates the posting rules and we check the post and take action. But we often lack the time to read all the posts in the thread to see what may have triggered the offending post. :)

Thanks, sounds good to me.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are aware, we are to judge ourselves and not others? And yes, God can choose to cause people holding differing doctrine to be born anew. Recall how we are to treat the least of our siblings.

If a person, or group asserts biblical doctrine, that we believe is mistaken, we are to stand firm in the faith, and defend our views. But you did not address errant doctrine, and so your OP does not affirm the essentials of the faith.
I think that his point, and which is very valid, is that there are some who teach the doctrines of the Church of Rome and the Sda and at times Charasmatic Chaos doctrines, and those are NOT of the scriptures, and that their churches actually promote another false Gospel!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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He is saying that the Bible tells us that we are not to judge the world but to exercise discernment within the church. We are not to use the Law to condemn the world but instead to go and disciple people (the verb in the Great Commission is "disciple").

And we are to walk in the Light, not joining ourselves with people whose behavior is contrary to Christ. We are to be a holy people, sanctified to God, husbands of one wife - loving her as Christ loves the Church, people of good reputation, etc.
I do not think that the Church of Rome/Sda/WoF teach at all the real Gospel message of the Cross, and while some are indeed saved in those groups due to the Grace of God and not due to their false theology, and those groups are I think the ones he is witnessing with!
 

Desert Jim

New Member
not!!!

I am on this board and have started a flame with the Catholics and liberal progressives because I have claimed them not children of God. This board claims Christianity yet calls Catholics, Liberals, and probably many of the cults Christians.

As much as there are problems on this board at least my critics affirm the essentials of the faith.
 

Desert Jim

New Member
We can only answer that question based on our understanding of God's Word as revealed to us by the Holy Spirit.
Personally, it is my belief that one CANNOT be saved denying "essential" elements of the doctrine of salvation. BUT, what "are" the essential elements of salvation??? Inasmuch as I believe salvation comes about ONLY by faith in Jesus Christ's Gift, I say THAT is the only requirement for salvation. However, since I am not God and I will not be sending anyone to hell or to heaven, I have learned to say that the salvation of any one who believes "anything else" is certainly questionable. We can only witness according to God's word and we need to KNOW WHAT WE BELIEVE and WHY. Most Christians, I believe, only know that because of what someone told them.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I do not think that the Church of Rome/Sda/WoF teach at all the real Gospel message of the Cross, and while some are indeed saved in those groups due to the Grace of God and not due to their false theology, and those groups are I think the ones he is witnessing with!
Since your view is not actually in the Bible itself how is it any different?
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Perhaps some have the idea that one believer should not judge another, yet that is not what is prohibited.

The Lord Jesus said to the rulers, 23“If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on theSabbath? 24“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

There is a time and a place to speak out.

What is not allowed, nor should be is the condemnation.

Condemning is up to God, alone.

Reconciliation is our business.

That requires bringing appropriate understanding and judgement to discern how to respond.

The believer is not to waste time with swine and dogs when it comes to the Gospel. If folks display no interest or desire when given the gospel, move on to find others who will be interested.

Use judgement, discernment, and grieve for the lost who refuse the reconciliation. Just as Paul did for his own who rejected “the way.”
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We can only answer that question based on our understanding of God's Word as revealed to us by the Holy Spirit.
Personally, it is my belief that one CANNOT be saved denying "essential" elements of the doctrine of salvation. BUT, what "are" the essential elements of salvation??? Inasmuch as I believe salvation comes about ONLY by faith in Jesus Christ's Gift, I say THAT is the only requirement for salvation. However, since I am not God and I will not be sending anyone to hell or to heaven, I have learned to say that the salvation of any one who believes "anything else" is certainly questionable. We can only witness according to God's word and we need to KNOW WHAT WE BELIEVE and WHY. Most Christians, I believe, only know that because of what someone told them.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".

Best post of this thread.
 

Katarina Von Bora

Active Member
I think you are terribly mistaken. I have done posts on the salvation of Roman Catholics and come away thinking that most on this board would not call Roman Catholics saved from the response. The views on this board vary greatly on that point, but a good number, such as myself, believe that if you mess up key doctrines you are probably not saved. The key question I still need to discuss is "what are key doctrines?"

Paul is clear:

English Standard Version (ESV)

Galatians 1:8English Standard Version (ESV)

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Catholics believe in grace plus works saves (maybe) and purgatory is a non existent place.

That sounds like another gospel to me.

 

FollowTheWay

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
not!!!

I am on this board and have started a flame with the Catholics and liberal progressives because I have claimed them not children of God. This board claims Christianity yet calls Catholics, Liberals, and probably many of the cults Christians.

As much as there are problems on this board at least my critics affirm the essentials of the faith.
So now you're the Judge?

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Jesus told the rich young ruler he must sell everything he had and give it to the poor. This wasn't just about money. It was about making Christ the Lord of his life not money or power or POLITICS. I think you need to consider whether he's speaking to you. I find nothing about political allegiances being relevant to salvation in the Bible. Jesus accepted tax collectors, prostitutes, Roman Centurions (uho crucified lots of Christians). The greatest persecutor of Christians, Saul, became the greatest evangelist and supporter, Paul. What gives you the right to exclude "liberals." That is evidence of the effect the Republican Party has on you which overrides the effect of your faith.
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So now you're the Judge?

Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Jesus told the rich young ruler he must sell everything he had and give it to the poor. This wasn't just about money. It was about making Christ the Lord of his life not money or power or POLITICS. I think you need to consider whether he's speaking to you. I find nothing about political allegiances being relevant to salvation in the Bible. Jesus accepted tax collectors, prostitutes, Roman Centurions (uho crucified lots of Christians). The greatest persecutor of Christians, Saul, became the greatest evangelist and supporter, Paul. What gives you the right to exclude "liberals." That is evidence of the effect the Republican Party has on you which overrides the effect of your faith.

Do you even know what Roman Catholicism and Liberal Christianity teach? Did you even research this before you replied?

I will help you.

What is liberal Christian theology?
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Since your view is not actually in the Bible itself how is it any different?
IF you mean the PST view, then you would be sayiong that Calvin/Luther/ and basically all reformed and Calvinist Baptist got itall wrong, and Wright got it right!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Paul is clear:

English Standard Version (ESV)

Galatians 1:8English Standard Version (ESV)

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Catholics believe in grace plus works saves (maybe) and purgatory is a non existent place.

That sounds like another gospel to me.

The reformers would all agree with you!
 
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