You can be saved without the Gospel???

[Dave G]

@PB Brother Tony
Please re-read my post above...I've edited it.

 

[Alan Gross]

This is just not at all what Paul presented.

You present the word, 'justified', as having a definition you assume and are not into considering any other usage of 'justified', by God, Paul, or any other writer.

So, that's just on you.

You invent various other 'ways of salvation', and other errors all the time that way.

God so loved the world, so do not love the world, or the things in the world, because the friend of the world is the enemy of God.

What do words mean, according to their usage?

You can pluck a word straight up and say it means so and so, but that doesn't make God Agree.

The Bible Words all agree.

 

[Reformed1689]

All you 'means', or 'gospel regeneration' types make the same mistake as the Jews:

39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; Jn 5

The gospel has zilch to do with conveying eternal life to the elect, it tells of the ONE Who does:

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Tim 1

Strawman

 

[Alan Gross]

But you didn’t continue with what Paul stated!

As a result, you are missing the point of the work of God in those who have not even heard of the “Law” or the OT.

Because of that, you have taken issue with what Paul stated in Romans 1 and 2, concerning those who never heard or ever would hear certain history associated with the Gospel, yet can as Paul stated,

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. ...

12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.​

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16.

The remainder of the Passage must be interpreted, correctly.

 

[Reformed1689]

Faith is a gift from the Holy Ghost and we do not receive our gifts until the new birth (regeneration) is complete? So how can a dead man believe in the Gospel?

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Romans 3:11 KJV
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

These verses are prime examples that prior to the new birth we don’t want anything to do with God, we don’t care for Him, nor do we search for Him.

You realize I agree with you right?

 

[kyredneck]

Strawman

Hard head

 

[agedman]

I think, you think that you think that asking me what I think after I told you what I think is something you think is thought worthy.

There is a Way of Salvation.

There are false religious errors.

There is ONE way of salvation.

It has been so and will continue till the heavens and earth are destroyed.

God (as seen in the conversation between Nicodemus and the Christ) will save according to His good pleasure.

Paul asks, “9What then? Are we better than they (the Gentiles)? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;...”

He goes on to declare, “19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
(Do not forget that the Gentiles have the “law” written on the heart.)

He goes on, “21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, ”

He continues, “28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

That is why Paul with all authority writes Romans 2:14-16.

Faith.

Belief.

That is the manner ALL are redeemed.

 

[Reformed1689]

Hard head

No, you misrepresented what I said.

 

[kyredneck]

You realize I agree with you right?

You realize he gave post #89 a winner, right?

 

[Reformed1689]

You realize he gave post #89 a winner, right?

What does that have to do with anything? Anyone can give any post a winner. It doesn't mean anything. And so what @PB Brother Tony who has been here all of 18 hours gave you a winner. Good for you. That doesn't change the fact you misrepresented my position.

 

[agedman]

The Bible is Good.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16

Aboninable Hereasy is Accused.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: because The Gospel provides the child of God a salvation of the mind

and is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

We agree:

God is good.

Belief is salvation.

God demonstrated His authority and power by the gospel in which Paul was unashamed to bring to people.

The question then must come, what do you consider is the gospel?

Is it mental ascent to historical facts, or is it the power of God demonstrated through the provision of a Redeemer?

 

[Alan Gross]

Do you not know what the Redeemer said!

“Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

17“Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”
​

By the strength of your own words
you lay burdens
that belong to the work of the Holy Spirit, restrict the Word
to the divine oracles written
and subject to humankind,
and actually would stand in judgment
by trying to apply Scriptures inappropriately
to that which would stand against Paul’s own words.

Is there a new 'salvation' about a child, there?

Is this second bunch of talk supposed to say something?

You talk a lot without saying what you're talking about.

 

[kyredneck]

That doesn't change the fact you misrepresented my position.

Point it out, what misrepresents your position:

"All you 'means', or 'gospel regeneration' types make the same mistake as the Jews:

39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; Jn 5

The gospel has zilch to do with conveying eternal life to the elect, it tells of the ONE Who does:

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Tim 1"

​

 

[Alan Gross]

There is ONE way of salvation.

It has been so and will continue till the heavens and earth are destroyed.

God (as seen in the conversation between Nicodemus and the Christ) will save according to His good pleasure.

Paul asks, “9What then? Are we better than they (the Gentiles)? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;...”

He goes on to declare, “19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
(Do not forget that the Gentiles have the “law” written on the heart.)

He goes on, “21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, ”

He continues, “28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

That is why Paul with all authority writes Romans 2:14-16.

Faith.

Belief.

That is the manner ALL are redeemed.

Yeah, I don't know what you are trying to say, or trying not to say.

When, Roman's 2:12-14 is interpreted correctly, it says something I'm sure.

 

[agedman]

You present the word, 'justified', as having a definition you assume and are not into considering any other usage of 'justified', by God, Paul, or any other writer.

So, that's just on you.

I’m not certain where you are getting this.

Never even implied by me.

But, how did you present “justified” in which I did not point back to Scripture truth?

You invent various other 'ways of salvation', and other errors all the time that way.

God so loved the world, so do not love the world, or the things in the world, because the friend of the world is the enemy of God.

What do words mean, according to their usage?

You can pluck a word straight up and say it means so and so, but that doesn't make God Agree.

The Bible Words all agree.

I have “invented” nothing of the sort.

I consistently and repeatedly write, ALL are redeemed EXACTLY the same way, from Eden to the end of the heavens and earth after the millennial reign of Christ.

I don’t know what you mean by the sentence, “The Bible Words all agree.”

What is the name of Jesus?

Is it the name that will cause all creation to bow, or the person and attributes associated with that person that causes the bowing?

The Bible says, “At the name of Jesus...”. Not the word Jesus.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

The Bible is Good.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16

Aboninable Hereasy is Accused.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: because The Gospel provides the child of God a salvation of the mind

and is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

We are legally justified by the blood of Christ, in God's justice system. Faith justifies us (declares us saved) in our conscience. IE, justification by faith is assurance of salvation. It comes to us as active believers.


Justification by works is our declaration of righteousness in the eyes of others.


So gospel means. There have been Baptists in the old days who believed it. But even those who did believed regeneration and conversion were separate things, but that they happened at the same time.


But notice John 3:8 - the Spirit moves as does the wind, and men have nothing to do with the wind. Also John 5, in which JEsus says we're born again by His words, just like the dead rise in the last day by His words.


So there are several examples in the Bible of people being converted. In Acts, notice how they're all people who were hungry and searching. Cornelius is the greatest example. God had cleansed him yet he was not yet a followed.


There are a few passage that some use to teach gospel means, like the passage in James about being begotten by the word. But that passage seems to be referring to the early church being the product of Jesus' preaching.


(firstfruits of them that believe...ie the early church)


The passage in Peter about being begotten by the Word likely has reference to being born again by Jesus' words, not preachers words about Jesus.


We hear the voice of the son of God and live.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

The Bible is Good.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16

Aboninable Hereasy is Accused.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: because The Gospel provides the child of God a salvation of the mind

and is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

No matter how many times you say something is a heresy doesn’t mean you’re right.

According to your claim Jesus Christ needs our help by our faith to save us. God is sovereign and if you claim that man plays ANY role, even our faith, then we’re in charge.


Do you see the contradiction?


Jesus died for the Church that all who are covered by His blood WILL be saved.


He is a perfect Savior!

 

[Reformed1689]

Point it out, what misrepresents your position:

"All you 'means', or 'gospel regeneration' types make the same mistake as the Jews:

39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; Jn 5

The gospel has zilch to do with conveying eternal life to the elect, it tells of the ONE Who does:

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Tim 1"

​

I have never said that the Gospel is what causes regeneration. But let me ask you this, do you have to believe on the name of Christ or not?

And for you, do you believe evangelism is necessary or not?

 

[PB Brother Tony]

The Bible is Good.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Romans 1:16

Aboninable Hereasy is Accused.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: because The Gospel provides the child of God a salvation of the mind

and is NOT the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2 Timothy 1:9 KJV
[9] Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Elected in eternity past justified on the cross!


Your faith in the Gospel is prove that you belong to Christ. Our faith is the sign of our new birth not the means.

 

[Reformed1689]

2 Timothy 1:9 KJV
[9] Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Elected in eternity past justified on the cross!


Your faith in the Gospel is prove that you belong to Christ. Our faith is the sign of our new birth not the means.

Ephesians 2:8-9 saved by grace through faith.