You can be saved without the Gospel???

[PB Brother Tony]

Again, you are ignoring Scripture.

I actually just gave you Scriptura.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

How a Primitive Baptist can rip Romans 4 out of their Bible with nary a pang of conscience never fails to amuse me. They then have the gall to accuse those who hold to a Monergistic/Reformed soteriology of a works-based salvation! Even our free will, Arminian brothers do not do that. Some of them are so obtuse that it is impossible to engage with them in a cogent conversation. David, if you can make headway with them, God bless you!

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Why don’t you break it down then?


What are we missing in Romans 4.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

What does this have to do with this topic?

Re-read it slowly.

 

[Reformed1689]

There apparently are some on this thread who would present that ONLY those who are given the knowledge of the gospel are able to be redeemed.

But then, that removes redemption from the total authority of God, and places it into the hands and whims of people.

This is false. God has chosen the elect to be saved, yes, but he has also decreed the means by which they the salvation will be enacted, the news of the Gospel found in Scripture in the name of Jesus Christ. So yes, you can only be saved with the knowledge of the Gospel. That does not take authority from God because that is how God set it up. That is his authoritative answer.

 

[Reformed1689]

Re-read it slowly.

I did, now explain.

 

[Reformed1689]

I actually just gave you Scriptura.

While ignoring other parts of Scripture.

 

[kyredneck]

your other posts that seem to say faith is not necessary

Are you now resorting to fibbing? Show the posts.

Ok, at this point I have no idea what you are babbling about.

"16 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4

Your position begs the question, at what point was Timothy and his flock finally going to get 'saved'?"

It's a real plain simple question.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

While ignoring other parts of Scripture.

This is false. God has chosen the elect to be saved, yes, but he has also decreed the means by which they the salvation will be enacted, the news of the Gospel found in Scripture in the name of Jesus Christ. So yes, you can only be saved with the knowledge of the Gospel. That does not take authority from God because that is how God set it up. That is his authoritative answer.

So you’re saying in short that every elect person WILL hear the Gospel?

If so please quote the verse(s).

 

[PB Brother Tony]

While ignoring other parts of Scripture.

Not at all.


God’s sovereign wether you like it or not.


Salvation is of the Lord not your power to believe.

 

[Reformed1689]

Not at all.


God’s sovereign wether you like it or not.


Salvation is of the Lord not your power to believe.

Hyper-Calvinist, Hyper-Unbiblical. And you are engaging in strawman as well.

 

[Reformed1689]

So you’re saying in short that every elect person WILL hear the Gospel?

If so please quote the verse(s).

Nope, I did not claim that now did I? Strawman argument.

 

[Alan Gross]

How a Primitive Baptist can rip Romans 4 out of their Bible with nary a pang of conscience never fails to amuse me. They then have the gall to accuse those who hold to a Monergistic/Reformed soteriology of a works-based salvation! Even our free will, Arminian brothers do not do that. Some of them are so obtuse that it is impossible to engage with them in a cogent conversation. David, if you can make headway with them, God bless you!

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Is there the element of 'Eternal Elect' and an 'Eternal Damned', in this Primitive thing?

No Bible, except, "the wind blows'?

A 3-word 'Bible'?

Just 'Something is, maybe, and we are ignorant of everything, otherwise?

That was what was called, 'Hardshell', wasn't it?

Pure fatalism?

Is that how Satan completely cuts a whole false religion loose from any responsibility?

That is exactly what I have said it is.

The EXACT OPPOSITE of The Bible.

...

We may be able to fill in the Parable of The Pharisee and The Tax Collector, with their judgments, after all.

We have people 'Guided' by The Holy Spirit that only say, "the wind blows', and THAT(?) is their Bible?

The express ignorance of The Entire Eternal Plan of Salvation?

No need for either TESTAMENT?

...

Jesus was already spat on, when He was on The Cross.

No wonder a thread topic can commit the unpardonable sin.
...

...

 

[PB Brother Tony]

Hyper-Calvinist, Hyper-Unbiblical. And you are engaging in strawman as well.

Straw man? Really?!


How so?


You claim that God is sovereign yet man still plays some kind of role.


Sorry I’m not a Calvinist of any sort. Just a Baptist that believes his Bible which teaches us that God saves His people by Christ, without our help.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

Nope, I did not claim that now did I? Strawman argument.

Again with another straw man. You’re contradicting yourself, that’s all. If some of the elect don’t hear the Gospel then they’re still His elect and don’t need to hear the Gospel.

 

[Reformed1689]

Again with another straw man. You’re contradicting yourself, that’s all. If some of the elect don’t hear the Gospel then they’re still His elect and don’t need to hear the Gospel.

I'm saying, there is nobody that is elect that will not hear the Gospel.

 

[Reformed1689]

Straw man? Really?!


How so?


You claim that God is sovereign yet man still plays some kind of role.


Sorry I’m not a Calvinist of any sort. Just a Baptist that believes his Bible which teaches us that God saves His people by Christ, without our help.

I never claimed it is with our help. Show me one time where I have claimed such. You will not find it. Another Strawman argument. You aren't biblical of any sort either. I suggest some Bible classes because you cherry pick verses to come up with this crazy theology of yours and blatantly ignore other parts of Scripture.

 

[Alan Gross]

Straw man? Really?!


How so?


You claim that God is sovereign yet man still plays some kind of role.


Sorry I’m not a Calvinist of any sort. Just a Baptist that believes his Bible which teaches us that God saves His people by Christ, without our help.

When?

 

[PB Brother Tony]

I'm saying, there is nobody that is elect that will not hear the Gospel.

Really? How about children that die in the womb? Or people that are mentally challenged?


Your argument is horrible at best.

 

[Alan Gross]

Again with another straw man. You’re contradicting yourself, that’s all. If some of the elect don’t hear the Gospel then they’re still His elect and don’t need to hear the Gospel.

So, Satan is O. K. with just skipping the whole "preach the Gospel", thing?

 

[agedman]

This is false. God has chosen the elect to be saved, yes, but he has also decreed the means by which they the salvation will be enacted, the news of the Gospel found in Scripture in the name of Jesus Christ. So yes, you can only be saved with the knowledge of the Gospel. That does not take authority from God because that is how God set it up. That is his authoritative answer.

Unfortunately, you are being exclusionary and not inclusive as Paul states.

The single word that guarantees salvation is “belief.” Those that believe are redeemed, those who do not are already condemned.

Now, do not the Scriptures state, “Faith (belief) comes by hearing, and hearing comes by the Word of God?”

Did Job believe?
How about Noah, Mosses...

Was there a “gospel” delivered to them?

Of course, they heard God.

The Scriptures state of Noah that he “found grace in the eyes of the Lord.”

So then the question must be answered, what is specifically the gospel and was it different to them in comparison to us?

If the answer is no, and they did posses the same gospel, then with the exception of time and place of historical events all can be reached by the SAME gospel. But rather than the presentation being, “God will provide” as Abraham, we can state God has provided.

The SAME gospel delivered to Seth, is the same Gospel that saved Paul.