Heavenly Pilgrim
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You may know (absolutely) ye have eternal life
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Is your deleted post a retraction of this statement?
I quoted Strong's word for word from the concordance. Copyright 1995.
Regardless of Strong's, does your bible state something other than "know"?
My other source given was Dictionary.com. Do you disagree with the definition given for "know"?
God Bless! :thumbs:
mark1:
"They can not come to the light except their deeds be changed. ... Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
GE:
Can't you see that you say directly the opposite of what Jesus said? 'Changed' x 'reproved'? 'Reproved' means condemned for what they ARE!
"They can not come to the light except their deeds be changed. ... Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
GE:
Can't you see that you say directly the opposite of what Jesus said? 'Changed' x 'reproved'? 'Reproved' means condemned for what they ARE!
GE, you believe that a person does not have to change his ways. Scripture says "thou shalt not commit adultery", as long as he is told it is wrong, it doesn't matter if he don't change and quit committing adultery. The important part to make him come to the light is to be told, and that will cause him to "come to the light"? You don't have to quit the sin, just be told about it?Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Jam 1:22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
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mark1 said:GE, you believe that a person does not have to change his ways. Scripture says "thou shalt not commit adultery", as long as he is told it is wrong, it doesn't matter if he don't change and quit committing adultery. The important part to make him come to the light is to be told, and that will cause him to "come to the light"? You don't have to quit the sin, just be told about it?
Jam 1:22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
GE:
No, Mark1, that is not what i mean. Take James 1:22 here : Do you believe it is the Word of God? I'm sure you do! Is it not God's LIVING Word then for you? I'm sure it is! Then is it not the POWER of the Word of God to you? I'm sure it is! What does that LIVING Word of God's Power mean to you then? Does it not raise up in you that will which want to do the will of God? Did it come from inside you because of your desire to? Maybe yes; but from where did that inner will and desire of yours come from? From yourself? If you say yes, you are a liar who will not give God the honour and glory you owe Him 100%!
The important part WAS, that GOD made the ungodly to come to the light; that GOD with creating omnipotent WORD told that hater and drinker, and that GOD CAUSED him to "come to the light"! THEN that man cannot help but quit his sin, and prove GOD, the Righteous. Yes, GOD, must just tell him about it. NOTHING more. What did Lazarus do over and above what Jesus did when he raised him from the dead? Every saved sinner is a Lazarus, or worse, because Lazarus was the friend of Jesus; how much greater mercy does the hater and enemy of God need, and how much less of himself which is nothing but hate for God does he need. Not even Hercules can lift himslef by the bootstrings. If there is ANY love in his heart for GOD, then GOD has put it there without his help or cooperation or desire or will.
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Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE;
Are you saying that a man cannot quit adultery or sin, except God forces him to quit?
Rom 10:18
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Rom 10:19
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you.
Israel heard, did they all believe?
1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
If the word is going to the whole world, then how come the whole world is not saved?
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The "power" of God's word, taught me that I was lost and in need of a Savior. The Grace of God, which bringeth salvation, hath appeared unto "all" men, not just you and I GE.mark1 said:
Go ye into "all" the world and preach the "gospel" to every creature.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God, unto salvation, unto everyone who "believeth", to the Jew first (who rejected Him, after hearing Him) and also unto the Greek.
Ok, I knew i shouldn't have responded to this subject because it is way off the OP topic.
Could you guys take this to a new thread please? I want to keep this thread open for HP's responses to my last post. I will bounce it forward so we can get back on track...
Could you guys take this to a new thread please? I want to keep this thread open for HP's responses to my last post. I will bounce it forward so we can get back on track...
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Please, continue on with your present discussion. I am not ready to respond to your last post to me yet, and I am having a good time just reading the present discussion. Carry on. :thumbs:
My first source would be the Bible itself:Heavenly Pilgrim said:
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
This is the key verse in this chapter. The purpose of John's writing this is epistle is "that you may know that you have eternal life," and here he states that it comes by believing on the name of the Son of God (no mention of works).
It is interesting to note that though the word ginosko is used often, it is not used here. Along with the word "pisteuo" coming from pistis, meant "to believe" the word "eido" is used, meaning "to know." This is even stronger than "ginosko," which has been previously discussed.
eidw eido i'-do
a primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from
the equivalent 3700 and 3708; properly, to see (literally or figuratively); by
implication, (in the perfect tense only) to know:--be aware, behold, X can (+ not
tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell,
understand, wish, wot.
It has the nuance of "being sure."
The above is from Strong's. Let's take a look at what Thayer's Greek Lexicon says:
eidō
Thayer Definition:
1) to see
1a) to perceive with the eyes
1b) to perceive by any of the senses
1c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover
1d) to see
1d1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything
1d2) to pay attention, observe
1d3) to see about something
1d3a) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it
1d4) to inspect, examine
1d5) to look at, behold
1e) to experience any state or condition
1f) to see, i.e. have an interview with, to visit
2) to know
2a) to know of anything
2b) to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive
2b1) of any fact
2b2) the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning
2b3) to know how, to be skilled in
2c) to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (1Th_5:12)
Looking at the above list of the many meanings of the word, and the general sense that the word does have, one can easily see that generally speaking it is knowing for sure, as in "the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning." Wow! Talk about my salvation! It is forceful. It is meaningful. It has definite meaning. It is something that I can be absolutely sure of; that I can "know."
Amen!
The very word "know" or "eido" in either the English or the Greek is an absolute.
Many times people, including myself, will use the word loosely and wrongly. As in "I know I laid my keys right there on that counter" and then finding them in another place where I truly laid them. My memory plaid tricks on me, it was a different day perhaps when I laid them on the counter or it was some crazy dream I had left over in my subconscience that I thought was reality. Who "knows" but I should have said "I am almost certain I laid my keys right there on that counter".
With eternal life the word of God states "ye may know". This is not a "hope so" or a "think so" or a "pretty sure so". And it is not any sort of "entertain a hope so". It is a "KNOW SO" and it is a past event as declared in the usage of the word "eido".
Keep searching for a way out of this verse HP. You will never find any other interpretation. Why don't you allow the scriptures to harmonize? Should not your goal be to "know" the truth? What gain is there in embracing misinterpretations?
The scriptures must harmonize. Can you produce one passage that supports you view of one losing eternal life that harmonizes with 1Jo 5?
This single passage alone, but there are many others, crushes every single view, at every angle ever put forth, that suggest a person can be born again and then become lost again. Just take any scripture you ever used for your view of losing salvation and place it side by side with 1Jo 5. Then ask yourself, does my interpretation of the passage harmonize with John's declarations of eternal life?
What I don't understand HP, is why you would not want to find harmony with the scriptures? You need to search your heart and see why holding onto a feeling is more important than adusting those feelings to the harmony of God's word.
:jesus:
mark1:
"Are you saying that a man cannot quit adultery or sin, except God forces him to quit?"
GE:
It's not exactly what I say or mean; but, it amounts to nothing less; in fact, it amounts to far more. Because it requires the omnipotency of God, PLUS, His Free Will, to by and through the new creation of the old man, to FORCE him by the irresistable power of the Holy Spirit, to do as God willed the new man should do. NOW "it's not I but Christ in me", says Paul, and that is HOW God FORCES a man and did FORCE a man until he became the willing doer of the will of God. That is the old, Reformed Faith - not GE's!
"Are you saying that a man cannot quit adultery or sin, except God forces him to quit?"
GE:
It's not exactly what I say or mean; but, it amounts to nothing less; in fact, it amounts to far more. Because it requires the omnipotency of God, PLUS, His Free Will, to by and through the new creation of the old man, to FORCE him by the irresistable power of the Holy Spirit, to do as God willed the new man should do. NOW "it's not I but Christ in me", says Paul, and that is HOW God FORCES a man and did FORCE a man until he became the willing doer of the will of God. That is the old, Reformed Faith - not GE's!
Steaver, your post 93 --- Amen!
When we get to Heaven and eternal life, will we still have "faith"??steaver said:
eidos
to see
- to perceive with the eyes
- to perceive by any of the senses
- to perceive, notice, discern, discover
- to see
- i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything
- to pay attention, observe
- to see about something 1d
If you do not mind, please answer whether we will have "faith" in Heaven.
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When you speak of what Paul says, it is after being "born again". We are talking about the sinner, those who have not been born again, but are in need of a Saviour. You use scripture to the saved and apply it to the unsaved.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Why is it needful to preach the word of God, if man cannot take heed to it?
I think you have got it the wrong way round; not me!
"Why is it needful to preach the word of God, if man cannot take heed to it?"
Exactly so that the Word can bring to hearing, which brings to faith, which brings justification, which brings to the new birth and sanctification. It ALL begins AND ends with the Word of God. Christ, says Paul, is the all in all fulfilling fulnes of God. God 'drills' an ear that can hear, said David (?). He prayed - because he HAD been saved already: Create in me a new heart. God only in the heart of the saved sinner, evokes conflict between good and bad, right and wrong, unbelief and faith, unwillingness and willingness. These all are the characterisitcs of only the saved, and only BECAUSE they had been saved eternally. None of these things indicate the beginning of some possibility that one might get saved. These things indicate the heart of the reborn sinner.
"Why is it needful to preach the word of God, if man cannot take heed to it?"
Exactly so that the Word can bring to hearing, which brings to faith, which brings justification, which brings to the new birth and sanctification. It ALL begins AND ends with the Word of God. Christ, says Paul, is the all in all fulfilling fulnes of God. God 'drills' an ear that can hear, said David (?). He prayed - because he HAD been saved already: Create in me a new heart. God only in the heart of the saved sinner, evokes conflict between good and bad, right and wrong, unbelief and faith, unwillingness and willingness. These all are the characterisitcs of only the saved, and only BECAUSE they had been saved eternally. None of these things indicate the beginning of some possibility that one might get saved. These things indicate the heart of the reborn sinner.
Preach the Gospel to "every creature" has no meaning then does it?Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Rom 10:17So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Paul said "its Christ in me". Is Christ in the unsaved. Why did He say I stand at the door and knock, if any man will hear my voice, I will come in and sup with him and he with me.
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Amy.G said:
I just read this. There are other scriptures on knowledge.
Eze 37:13
And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.
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