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Your single most important doctrine...
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
If you had lived in the days of Noah - what would have been the single most important thing for you to know??
That God was Triune??
That there would one day be baptism by immersion?
I think you would need to know 2 things.
1. The gospel.
2. The importance of that whopping big boat in Noah's backyard as it relates to the end of the world.
Before the end of the World - God sent his prophet - Noah.
Before the coming of Christ - God sent his prophet - John the baptizer.
For the launch of the Christian church - God created 12 Apostles to lead his church into the New Testament era.
Before the 2nd of the World - God sent his prophet - Ellen White with 50,000 pages of manuscript that includes a lot of information about the end of the world.
in Christ,
Bob
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1 John 4:1-3a "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. "
I'd say this is a starting point!
I'd say this is a starting point!
PreachTony
Active Member
How would you know the gospel in the days of Noah? It was written for another several thousand years.
Relatively accurate. Noah was a preacher of righteousness in a world so sin-sick and depraved that only 8 were saved out of it in the most physical sense. John the Baptist was the forerunner of Christ; a voice crying in the wilderness "make straight the way of the Lord." The disciples were those closest to Christ, but He called more than 12. He sent out 70 at one point. Before His ascension, He was seen of over 500. The 12 went out to spread the Word.
Sorry, Bob, but that's the biggest load of crud out there. The Scriptures are our witness, as blessed and revealed unto us by the Holy Ghost. They are complete and whole, and nothing needs to be added to them. You are acting erroneously in holding to the false prophesies of Ellen White, and how you hold them as equally inspired and required along with the Scriptures.
My single most important doctrine doesn't come from a denominational perspective. It comes from the Bible.
It is this: I was born a sinner and have lived in sin and cannot save nor deliver myself. All alone, I am bound for hell. God created me and loved me and sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die in my stead and to deliver me from my sins. His wrath against my sin is justified. I have and had no excuse. I called upon the Name of the Lord when His Spirit taught me this and I was saved. It is now my responsibility to follow the Lord as He continues to sanctify me and it is my responsibility to live in holiness and in righteousness and to teach others about Christ.
I can attend a myriad of churches who teach this.
Of what does the Gospel message consist, in your opinion? It seems to me, looking at all the different denominations and the teachings of them, many mutually contradictory, the question becomes, which Gospel?
Yes, that's good, but as you say, it is a starting point.
But some of what you say comes from the Bible, others don't see there. For instance, that everyone is born a sinner, that Jesus died in our stead. Yes, many churches teach that, actually most evangelical Protestant churches, but there are other churches which do not believe this. So, how do you know that you are right and they are wrong?
At its heart the Gospel message is, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31). The next verse is revealing, Acts 16:32 "And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house". Paul most likely preached Christ to the jailer and his household. He probably told them of the promise of Christ's birth, that He is the Son of God, that He died to pay the sin-debt that the jailer and his family owed to God, that by truly believing in Jesus (by faith) that they could have their sins forgiven and receive eternal life. These are the component parts that make up the Gospel.
Yes, I would agree that Acts 16:31 is at the heart of the Gospel. What I wouldn't agree with is that Jesus died to pay a sin-debt. Many interpret the death of Jesus that way, but many do not. So, who is correct?
Many interpret the death of Jesus that way, but few do not. The former is correct.
What is your definition of 'few'? I would not classify several hundred million as 'few'.
On what basis do you say that the former is correct? If you say the Bible, those who disagree would also say the Bible. So, how does one determine which is true?
If Jesus did not shed his blood to pay for our sins how is forgiveness for sins possible?
Hebrews 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 9:24-28 For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, he would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
1 Peter 1:18, 19 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
Hehehe yea right.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Do you know what a wage is? The price to be paid for our sin is death.
1Co_6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1Co_7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
We were bought by Jesus who paid our sin debt. Scripture is clear on this one. There is no reasonable room for doubt.
Michael Wrenn we have had this discussion before.
All Christians believe that Jesus died for us, and that he shed his blood, but the meaning of His death is interpreted in several ways. Basically - and I am oversimplifying this right now - the East believes one way about it, and the West believes another. And they are drastically different.
Hehehe yea right.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Do you know what a wage is? The price to be paid for our sin is death.
1Co_6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1Co_7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
We were bought by Jesus who paid our sin debt. Scripture is clear on this one. There is no reasonable room for doubt.
Michael Wrenn we have had this discussion before.
All of Eastern Orthodoxy would disagree with you, and so would many Mennonites, and others.
Where has this discussion been had before? Please point me to the thread. I'll ignore the rest of what you said, although I'm sure you'll persist in it.
I am stating Protestant orthodoxy, not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox views which are, in my opinion, in error.
Yes, I know you are stating evangelical Protestant orthodoxy. And I also know that EO would believe your views are in error, although RC would basically agree with you.
I do want to thank you for engaging in a civil debate. I enjoy this kind of discussion. I hope to continue tomorrow.