Your single most important doctrine...

[PreachTony]

You have no statement of faith?!? What reply do you give to people when they come to review the church?

EWF - Depends on what you mean by "review" the church. We have a Church Covenant, as most churches do. But we don't have a printed out statement of faith. We don't have a website, so we wouldn't have one there, either.

Every preacher, deacon, and elder, I firmly believe, stands ready to give defense of the faith that is within us, which amounts greatly to what we stand for. We're just a small little backwoods church. I guess for my own idea, I think of the Bible as my statement of faith. (And yes, I realize that sounds awfully cliche.)

 

[Rebel]

Gonna have to agree to disagree with you there, bud. I agree it was only one aspect of His overall purpose. But He died to make atonement for the sins of the world, meaning He did pay a sin debt. After all, without shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. The sacrifices of bulls and goats sufficed only for a time. The sacrifice of Christ, dying the death we deserved, as many others have said, made the difference.

We are not delivered from physical death, because this body still must die, seeing as it is corrupted by sin. The corruptible must put on incorruption; the mortal must put on immortality. We are delivered from spiritual death, meaning the second death of the Bible, which is the Lake of Fire. We are freed from that, thanks to Christ atoning for us and now making intercession for us. We are freed from the pain and sting of death, and the "victory" of the grave, by Christ rising from the dead and coming out of the tomb victorious over death and Hell.

We are delivered from Satan in that Christ has sealed us up to the day of redemption. This does not mean we are freed from the antagonizing efforts of Satan. I firmly believe Satan seeks to tear down any Christian he can. Satan does not need to tear down the lost, because they are already where he wants them to be. Tearing down someone already established in their walk with God is like a trophy for Satan.

We are delivered from physical death in one sense, in that we have the promise of resurrection.

As for the atonement, there are ways of viewing that other than what has been taught in the RCC or Protestantism, thank God.

 

[Rebel]

Let me follow up with another question after my OP. Does your most important doctrine determine where you go to church or what denomination you are a part of?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF - Depends on what you mean by "review" the church. We have a Church Covenant, as most churches do. But we don't have a printed out statement of faith. We don't have a website, so we wouldn't have one there, either.

Every preacher, deacon, and elder, I firmly believe, stands ready to give defense of the faith that is within us, which amounts greatly to what we stand for. We're just a small little backwoods church. I guess for my own idea, I think of the Bible as my statement of faith. (And yes, I realize that sounds awfully cliche.)

Both cliche and vague! Why is that do you think?!?

 

[annsni]

Yes, that is good. But in the end, we all still die for our own sins, do we not?

Nope. I'm not going to die for my sins because Jesus paid the price for them. I have life everlasting promised to me based on what HE did, not what I did.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Let me follow up with another question after my OP. Does your most important doctrine determine where you go to church or what denomination you are a part of?

Thats an excellent question.....my answer to it is yes.

For example I wrote to 3 churches last month and specifically detailed my beliefs (5 points, amill, partial preteorist etc) and I got no responses back.

A PCA church in the area indicated that they believe in the doctrines but I wouldn't find them preached discussed or taught in the church.

 

[PreachTony]

Thats an excellent question.....my answer to it is yes.

For example I wrote to 3 churches last month and specifically detailed my beliefs (5 points, amill, partial preteorist etc) and I got no responses back.

A PCA church in the area indicated that they believe in the doctrines but I wouldn't find them preached discussed or taught in the church.

I can, in a way, see where they are coming from, even though I don't totally agree with them. My church is amil and, mostly, partial-preterist, but it's not like our Pastor gets up and says, "alright, it's now time to discuss our eschatological views." No, he just gets up and preaches the gospel message that God lays on his heart. If it includes an eschatological bend, then so be it.

I wouldn't go so far as to say those things would never be mentioned at all, but I would be wary of a church who felt it necessary to state their doctrinal views every time.

 

[Rebel]

Nope. I'm not going to die for my sins because Jesus paid the price for them. I have life everlasting promised to me based on what HE did, not what I did.

My point is, you're still going to die, so how can Jesus' death mean what the RCC and evangelical Protestantism say it means?

 

[Rebel]

Thats an excellent question.....my answer to it is yes.

For example I wrote to 3 churches last month and specifically detailed my beliefs (5 points, amill, partial preteorist etc) and I got no responses back.

A PCA church in the area indicated that they believe in the doctrines but I wouldn't find them preached discussed or taught in the church.

Wow, amazing! I wonder why not??

 

[PreachTony]

My point is, you're still going to die, so how can Jesus' death mean what the RCC and evangelical Protestantism say it means?

The Bible makes it clear that it is appointed unto man once to die. Regardless your take on this verse (pertaining to spiritual or physical death) we still have to lay down this natural body, as it is corrupted and sin-stained and cannot stand in the presence of Almighty God. Christ's atoning death on the cross did not secure for us eternal life in this present physical body. It granted us eternal spiritual life in His presence, in an incorruptible body that Paul told the Corinthians we would put on at the Second Coming.

 

[Rebel]

The Bible makes it clear that it is appointed unto man once to die. Regardless your take on this verse (pertaining to spiritual or physical death) we still have to lay down this natural body, as it is corrupted and sin-stained and cannot stand in the presence of Almighty God. Christ's atoning death on the cross did not secure for us eternal life in this present physical body. It granted us eternal spiritual life in His presence, in an incorruptible body that Paul told the Corinthians we would put on at the Second Coming.

Tony, of course I agree with what you said.

 

[annsni]

My point is, you're still going to die, so how can Jesus' death mean what the RCC and evangelical Protestantism say it means?

What do the RCC and evangelical Protestantism say it means?

 

[Reformed]

Yes, that is good. But in the end, we all still die for our own sins, do we not?

We die physically because of the sin of Adam, our federal head. Since we are unable to atone for our own sin physical death is perpetuated by the human race.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

 

[Reformed]

There is a difference of opinion on how the word translated as propitiation should be translated. Many translate it as expiation.

Not that much of a difference of opinion. Most theologians in Protestantism translate the koine as propitiation.

 

[Reformed]

We are delivered from physical death in one sense, in that we have the promise of resurrection.

As for the atonement, there are ways of viewing that other than what has been taught in the RCC or Protestantism, thank God.

Please do not tell me you are going to the "bloodless atonement" or Christus Victor route.

 

[Rebel]

What do the RCC and evangelical Protestantism say it means?

The main view of the RCC is Anselm's satisfaction of divine justice theory. The main view of evangelical Protestantism has been penal substitution.

 

[Rebel]

Please do not tell me you are going to the "bloodless atonement" or Christus Victor route.

I'll quote what I said earlier this morning in another thread: "Oh, and just let me state for the record that my views of the atonement encompass all the views held by the earliest churches, that is, the Ransom view, the Recapitulation view, Christus Victor, and to a degree the moral influence view, although the latter was not fully formulated until Peter Abelard, and I do find it to be sort of an incomplete theory. I do not hold to any of the views that came much later in the history of the church, particularly those originating in the western churches, whether RC or Protestant. "

 

[PreachTony]

Please do not tell me you are going to the "bloodless atonement" or Christus Victor route.

That was my worry when I started reading up on Christus Victor. Seemed to be a bit of a lean toward bloodless atonement, which is certainly not scriptural.

 

[Rebel]

I sometimes think I should be Eastern Orthodox, except I don't believe in infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, an ever-virgin Mary, celibacy of bishops, their view of apostolic succession. But I do hold to their views of man, original sin, salvation, atonement. I don't know of any Western bodies which do, except for some early Mennonites and Anabaptists, and a few modern ones.

I continue to hold to Baptist principles, but I don't know any Baptist bodies who believe as I do on the doctrines I listed above.

 

[Yeshua1]

What is the single most important doctrine that determines for you personally what denomination you can be a part of? Can you even narrow it down to one?

On another note, I'm sorry I haven't replied to some other threads yet. I've just been too busy to read or post much.

What is the true Gospel?