Your view on Catholics

[lori4dogs]

Annsni: 'You state you are a Christian yet it is very clear here that you are Catholic.'

It is statements like the this one that makes it clear you believe it is i an 'either or situation. You seem to believe you can't be a Catholic and a Christian. I, on the other hand, am on this board to try to show SOME posters that a person can be both a Catholic and a Christian. I blieve ALL the essential beliefs that qualify a person to be a Baptist Christian (remember I was one) I now believe ALL that qualifies a person to be a Catholic Catholic Chrisitan. I just happen to believe that the Catholic Church holds the fullness of truth and therefore I am now Catholic.

 

[Johnv]

Although I share some of Annsi's criticism about Roman Catholicism, I agree with Lori about the aforementioned statement. Lori is a Christian, and she is a Catholic. It's not either-or. I can't for the life of me imagine that reasonable person on this board would question Lori's salvation, and I don't think that's what Annsi was inferring.

 

[Darron Steele]

I am troubled by this whole `Post your denominational affiliation as Christian and you are being deceptive.'

I posted that my denomination is "Christian only." When I became a Christian, my home congregation was a Baptist congregation. When I joined this board, I had the Churches of Christ as congregation home. Now it is Disciples of Christ. Someday, it may be another church group.

I am not lying by saying that I am just a Christian. Wherever my home congregation has been, no matter what church group/denomination, my primary religious loyalty has been to Jesus Christ and to His church at large.

I have no a priori loyalty to any church group regardless of where I am normally at on Sunday mornings. I may be attend a congregation in a specific church group, but it does not mean that I would want that church group advanced at the expense of another portion of the Lord's church.

I am a Christian. If asked my denomination, I say `Just a Christian' or `Christian only' or something like that. If someone asks me where I go to church, I say "___ Christian Church" or `a/the Disciples of Christ' or something like that.

 

[annsni]

Annsni: 'You state you are a Christian yet it is very clear here that you are Catholic.'

It is statements like the this one that makes it clear you believe it is i an 'either or situation. You seem to believe you can't be a Catholic and a Christian. I, on the other hand, am on this board to try to show SOME posters that a person can be both a Catholic and a Christian. I blieve ALL the essential beliefs that qualify a person to be a Baptist Christian (remember I was one) I now believe ALL that qualifies a person to be a Catholic Catholic Chrisitan. I just happen to believe that the Catholic Church holds the fullness of truth and therefore I am now Catholic.

No, it's not asking "Christian or Not", it's asking "Denomination (Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc.). It's clear that by putting "Christian" when you're "Catholic" (which would properly answer the question), and you had previously stated "Catholic" but were not approved, that you are using deceptive practices. If one does not identify with any of the denominational suggestions, then it is OK to put "Christian" but it is asking more specifically than that. If one attended the Catholic church as my father does but does not identify himself as "Catholic" but "Christian", then the correct answer would have been "Christian". I don't care that a Catholic considers himself a Christian - I care that someone lied to get into a board.

 

[DHK]

Although I share some of Annsi's criticism about Roman Catholicism, I agree with Lori about the aforementioned statement. Lori is a Christian, and she is a Catholic. It's not either-or. I can't for the life of me imagine that reasonable person on this board would question Lori's salvation, and I don't think that's what Annsi was inferring.

If Lori is a true believer then she cannot be a Catholic.
You cannot be both and believe both systems at the same time. It is an impossibility, just as you cannot be a Muslim and a Christian at the same time, or a Hindu and a Christian at the same time. When you become a Christian you forsake your former religion. I did. I had to. The doctrines of both: the RCC and Christianity at extreme opposites of each other. By default of some of their beliefs they don't believe that Christ died for their sins. You see, their Catechism is contradictory.

Christianity teaches that Christ atoned for all our sins.
The RCC teaches that they must atone for their sins in Purgatory; Christ did not pay the full atonement. His sacrifice was in vain. Else why would their be a need for Purgatory where further "purging" would be necessary.

Christianity teaches that salvation is by grace through faith.
The RCC teaches that salvation is by works. Baptism is a work. Keeping the ten commandments is works. Confirmation is a work. All of the sacraments are works. These are what save a person in the RCC, especially baptism and the sacraments. There is no salvation outside of them. Thus salvation is by works not by grace; not by faith.
They cannot understand this simple Scripture:

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
--nor this one:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Christianity teaches that the Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice.
The RCC teaches that the Bible + Tradition + Papal Decrees + many other things are their authority. The Bible is not their authority. In fact the Biblical doctrine of "sola scriptura" is a doctrine that is hated among the Catholics.

Christianity teaches that salvation is through Christ alone.
The RCC teaches that salvation is through Christ and Mary, and possibly more than that.
They treat Mary as another god. The pray to her; petition her; venerate her; worship her, etc. To them she is God, though they will not admit it. The Bible describes Mary, as the RCC treats her as a god. This is idolatry. It is also polytheism.

These are only some of the extremes. There are more than this.
You cannot believe what the RCC teaches and believe what Christianity teaches at the same time. You must choose one or the other. You cannot be both.

 

[lori4dogs]

If Lori is a true believer then she cannot be a Catholic.
You cannot be both and believe both systems at the same time. It is an impossibility, just as you cannot be a Muslim and a Christian at the same time, or a Hindu and a Christian at the same time. When you become a Christian you forsake your former religion. I did. I had to. The doctrines of both: the RCC and Christianity at extreme opposites of each other. By default of some of their beliefs they don't believe that Christ died for their sins. You see, their Catechism is contradictory.

Christianity teaches that Christ atoned for all our sins.
Else why would their be a need for Purgatory. Terrible conclusion, DHK (it is not because Christ blood was not sufficient on during the atonement) where further "purging" would be necessary. You forget THEOSIS or conveniently ignore it! The Catholic Church (Anglicn Rite): HE MADE THERE BY HIS ONCE OFFERED SACRIFICE, A FULL, SUFFICIENT SACRIFICE, OBLATION AND SATISFACTION FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD'. Catholic Church pretty clears it all up about the false statement you continually post on this board.

Christianity teaches that salvation is by grace through faith. So does the Catholic Church
The RCC teaches that salvation is by works. Baptism is a work. Baptism is obedience to Christ request that we do so. Keeping the ten commandments is works. Confirmation is a work. All of the sacraments are works. All the sacrament are by desire of Christian to follow Christ.These are what save a person in the RCC, especially baptism and the sacraments. There is no salvation outside of them. Thus salvation is by works not by grace; not by faith. Desire to participate in sacraments follows a desire to enter into the fullness of what has provided for us in walking with the Lord and following his will.
They cannot understand this simple Scripture: Billions do!

Lutherans do not recognize the authority of the pope: Still Christians
Anglicans do not recognized many protestants as not having apostolic succession.
Baptist don't recognize each other in the liquor store.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
--nor this one:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Christianity teaches that the Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice. (wow, and the Catholic Church compiled that New Testament for you!) You owe it to them and the Holy Spirit!
The RCC teaches that the Bible + Tradition + Papal Decrees + many other things are their authority. So does the bible! The Bible is not their authority. In fact the Biblical doctrine of "sola scriptura" is a doctrine that is hated among the Catholics. Not hated just seen as not biblical taught.

Christianity teaches that salvation is through Christ alone.
The RCC teaches that salvation is through Christ and Mary, and possibly more than that.
They treat Mary as another god. The pray to her; petition her; venerate her; worship her, etc. To them she is God, though they will not admit it. The Bible describes Mary, as the RCC treats her as a god. This is idolatry. It is also polytheism. We do ask her prayers, vererate, but the the churches teaches us to NEVER worship here. Some catholic groups have gone to far and the church condemns it. Please stop making things up about the teachings of the Catholic Church. I doubt you will ever change and will post example of some Catholics who have carried veneration of Mary too far. The OFFICIAL Church teaching is she is NEVER to be WORSHIPPED.


'(Jesus) The atonement, He made there by ONE oblation of the Himself ONCE offered a full, perfect, satisfaction, for the SINS of the whole World''

These are only some of the extremes. There are more than this.
You cannot believe what the RCC teaches and believe what Christianity teaches at the same time. You must choose one or the other. You cannot be both.

The church teaches that Christ blood does ALL the atoning for sins. Mary is NEVER to be worshiped as a God. Salvation is through Christ alone. We are forbidden to practice idolatry. You say 'to them she is God though they won't admit it' In fact they flatly DENY it. DHK, you hate the Catholic Church.

 

[lori4dogs]

Christianity teaches that salvation is through Christ alone.
The RCC teaches that salvation is through Christ and Mary, and possibly more than that.
They treat Mary as another god. The pray to her; petition her; venerate her; worship her, etc. To them she is God, though they will not admit it. The Bible describes Mary, as the RCC treats her as a god. This is idolatry. It is also polytheism. We do ask her prayers, vererate, but the the churches teaches us to NEVER worship here. Some catholic groups have gone to far and the church condemns it. Please stop making things up about the teachings of the Catholic Church. I doubt you will ever change and will post example of some Catholics who have carried veneration of Mary too far. The OFFICIAL Church teaching is she is NEVER to be WORSHIPPED.

 

[DHK]

The church teaches that Christ blood does ALL the atoning for sins. Mary is NEVER to be worshiped as a God. Salvation is through Christ alone. We are forbidden to practice idolatry. You say 'to them she is God though they won't admit it' In fact they flatly DENY it. DHK, you hate the Catholic Church.

No, I tell the truth; truth you will not accept. Remember I was a Catholic too. It was the Holy Spirit that opened my mind as I read the Scriptures.

 

[DHK]

Christianity teaches that salvation is through Christ alone.
The RCC teaches that salvation is through Christ and Mary, and possibly more than that.
They treat Mary as another god. The pray to her; petition her; venerate her; worship her, etc. To them she is God, though they will not admit it. The Bible describes Mary, as the RCC treats her as a god. This is idolatry. It is also polytheism. We do ask her prayers, vererate, but the the churches teaches us to NEVER worship here. Some catholic groups have gone to far and the church condemns it. Please stop making things up about the teachings of the Catholic Church. I doubt you will ever change and will post example of some Catholics who have carried veneration of Mary too far. The OFFICIAL Church teaching is she is NEVER to be WORSHIPPED.

That may be official but it is not true. The Catholic Church has to change the meaning of "worship" to make it even close to true. According to the dictionary definition of worship it is not even close to being true.

 

[annsni]

The church teaches that Christ blood does ALL the atoning for sins.

If sins are atoned for, how can we die not in a state of grace? If we die without being in a state of grace, we must go to purgatory in order to cleanse ourselves more to get to heaven.

Mary is NEVER to be worshiped as a God.

She is venerated even above her Son in some cases. She is bowed down to and prayed to. She is expected to do things for us in heaven making her a god.

Salvation is through Christ alone.

Salvation is through Christ alone - and the church, and the priest and the saints....

We are forbidden to practice idolatry.

Your forms of idolatry are different than our forms. When you redefine idolatry, then of course you can say it's forbidden.

 

[matt wade]

The OFFICIAL Church teaching is she is NEVER to be WORSHIPPED.

Baloney...praying is worshiping. You pray to Mary, therefore you worship her. That is worshiping a false god.

 

[annsni]

According to the dictionaries:

American Heritage:

The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.

The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

Ardent devotion; adoration.


Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary:

homage rendered to God which it is sinful (idolatry) to render to any created being (Ex. 34:14; Isa. 2:8). Such worship was refused by Peter (Acts 10:25,26) and by an angel (Rev. 22:8,9).

 

[billwald]

I suspect that an 1897 dictionary would define "gay" as cheerful, something like that. Language evolves.

 

[DHK]

I suspect that an 1897 dictionary would define "gay" as cheerful, something like that. Language evolves.

However definitions given by Bible dictionaries are usually accurate.

 

[annsni]

I suspect that an 1897 dictionary would define "gay" as cheerful, something like that. Language evolves.

Yes it does - but the Bible doesn't.

But here you go, here's the definition from Webster's New World College Dictionary from 2009:

reverence or devotion for a deity; religious homage or veneration
a church service or other rite showing this
extreme devotion or intense love or admiration of any kind

 

[Johnv]

If Lori is a true believer then she cannot be a Catholic.

That's between her and her church. It is not between her and you, or her and me, or her and anyone else.

 

[DHK]

That's between her and her church. It is not between her and you, or her and me, or her and anyone else.

Would you say the same for a Muslim?
It is between him and his mosque.
It's not between you and the Muslim or the Muslim and me and anyone else.
Is that really the truth John.
Does doctrine really mean nothing to you?

Do you accept the teaching of "St. Mother Theresa"?

"If a Catholic be a good Catholic; if a Hindu, be a good Hindu; if a Muslim, be a good Muslim, etc."
--This is from one of the RCC leaders of the time.
Does doctrine matter to you?

 

[Johnv]

I'm sure a lot of the catholicaphobes will disagree with me, but to compare a Catholic to a Hindu, Muslim, et al, is plain silly. We candebate Catholicism till we are blue in the fact, but to make a remark about a person instead of the church is an obvious indicator that you've got some serious built-up hatred that you need to let go. I pray that God someday frees you of the hatred that is in your heart for our brothers and sisters in Christ who are also Catholic.

 

[DHK]

I'm sure a lot of the catholicaphobes will disagree with me, but to compare a Catholic to a Hindu, Muslim, et al, is plain silly. I pray that God someday frees you of the hatred that is in your heart for our brothers and sisters in Christ who are also Catholic.

It is the doctrine I hate not the person.
Their doctrine sends people to hell; it is as far from salvation by grace through faith that one can get.

 

[Johnv]

It is the doctrine I hate not the person.

But you're taking it out on the people.