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Your view on Catholics
- Thread starter Fignar
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AMEN!:applause:
Heavenly Pilgrim
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This brings up a great question. How shall we know who is and who is not our brother and sister in the Lord? Is it necessarily by whether or not their doctrines line up absolutely with yours or mine?
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Good question HP:
I have found that I thought I was sharing with a brother/sister in the Lord and then found that some (if not most) of 'essential' doctrinal belief: Deity of Christ, belief in the Trinity, actual physical resurrection of the Lord, a belief in universalism, claiming the Bible is no longer relevant to our society, etc.? Then I asked by myself, were they exhibiting any of the 'fruits of the Spirit'? Came away believing that the Jesus I love and Adore is probably not the same as theirs.
Some doctrines are non-negotiable and cannot be compromised.
What are the essentials? Might make an interesting thread.
Unless the doctrine of election is true then it's God's call. Given the fact that I believe it is God who calls man to salvation, I know that He can call an infant too.
It is God's call, and He has deemed nobody is saved apart from faith in Christ, so my point stands. Either all are damned, or God will then save these sinners in some sort of way apart from faith. Neither is true.
Who said it's apart from faith?
A fetus and infant can exhibit faith in Christ's substitution for their condition? Scritpure for that?
I'm thinking of King David's response when he was notified of the death of his son. He said 'he can't come to me, but I can go to him.'
We don't know what faith an infant or fetus is capable of. We don't know what provision our ALL merciful Lord makes for these most precious souls. We just commend them to an ALL LOVING God who is all good and just.
We are the ones who limit what a fetus or infant is capable of.
I often wonder when all the babies in church are making noise if they just might be praising God. Who is to say? It all guess work and presumption.
Next time someones baby 'acts up in church' maybe we shouldn't be so quick to have an usher escort the mother out. That baby or infant may be doing more praising than all of us put together.
Just a thought!
There is none but God knows the babies, doesn't He? If my belief is true and that it's God who calls those to salvation, can He not call an infant or a fetus to faith as they can experience faith??
There are those who will be calling for me to be fixed to a stake, brushed piled up, lots of tar a pitch added to my body, and then light me up (since I will be burning in hell for eternity as a heretic anyway, might as well get started.)
Got to agree with you on this one.
"The secret things belong unto the Lord" (Deu.25:25)
Look at both parts of the verse:
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
One is saved by God's grace. God is entitled to save an infant by His grace in whatever way He deems fit. If He cannot, then He is not sovereign.
Apples and oranges.
God would not lie. God would not go against his nature. God would not go against His Word.
But God is silent on the matter of infants, and thus we, like Abraham, can testify: "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right."
But infant baptism is not right. It is downright heretical, especially as it is tied in with salvation.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Are you justly considering your own position DHK? Your response is ‘the secret things belong to God” which shows full well you have no earthly idea what is right or wrong. Then you call it heresy for one to baptize a baby in order to cleanse it from the inbreed sin you say you believe in. You admit, with not the slightest indication from Scripture, that God just somehow saves them by some unknown means when Scripture indicates clearly no one will be saved apart from repentance , faith and obedience to the end.
If you desire to throw the ‘heretic’ word around at every juncture at anyone that disagrees with you, why would they not be just as right to call you a heretic for believing what you believe, due to the fact it is as well not supported by Scripture in the least? Where does Scripture state that any shall be saved apart from repentance and faith? Where does Scripture indicate the necessity for infants to repent or exercise faith???
DHK, I am not being hard, just fair. You have as many fingers pointing squarely into your own chest as you have pointing at others like Lori or the Catholics for infant baptism. You both hold to the same Augustinian error of original sin, you just have different unscriptural ways in trying to provide cover for it.
By the way, I do have a way out of the dilemma both yourself and the Catholics are in.
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Darron Steele
New Member
DHK: I rarely address you, but I am starting to wonder what is going on behind the scenes around here.
I have two questions about this:
a) Do you determine who is a Christian here, and
b) do the rest of the site authorities go along with what you decide?
Also, is disagreement with you heresy? You throw that word and its derivatives around a lot.
I have two questions about this:
a) Do you determine who is a Christian here, and
b) do the rest of the site authorities go along with what you decide?
Also, is disagreement with you heresy? You throw that word and its derivatives around a lot.
The reference should have been Deu.29:29. Here it is.
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Notice that the teaching is that God holds some things "secret" that is a mystery to us. He does not reveal everything to us. But as to what he does reveal to us, it is revealed in His word. But those things which are revealed belong unto us...that we may do all the words of this law
They had the law; the Word of God for that day. We have the entire canon of Scripture. God has spoken through His Word. See again the difference:
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
--In the OT he spoke through the prophets; in this day and age He speaks through Christ as Christ is revealed to us through the Word of God.
All that we need to know about God is revealed to us in His Word. It is our authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. We have an authority. There are absolutes. There is right and wrong. We do not live in a relativistic society.
If the Bible says it is wrong, then I will say it is wrong.
The Scripture is silent. I indicated it is possible. However we remain silent where the Scripture is silent. I made no dogmatic statement on the issue if you care to read carefully.
What have I said that is against Scripture? The secret things belong to the Lord. That is what God said! Is he the heretic? I only quoted him!!!
No one can be saved apart from God's grace. That is what I said. That is what I stand by. The rest I leave in God's hand. And if you can find any heresy in what I just said, I don't know what it might be. Perhaps you are the one making false allegations.
Your not even being intelligent. Have you started to study your Bible yet.
On what basis do you ask?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: You have no right to bring up the ‘secret things of God’ and then tell us that God has made a way to save sinners in contradiction to His Word. His word states emphatically, “Unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish.” You have no right to manufacture a man made saving doctrine as cover for the man made damning doctrine of infants born in original sin, a doctrine by the way, simply not found in Scripture. Children and infants are represented as the very essence of innocence, “for such is the kingdom of heaven” not sinners from birth.
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