Your views on the issues?

[Salty]

A conversation I've had before, many a time, and don't feel like rehashing

In that case - just link 3 or 4 of your other discussions./

 

[evenifigoalone]

In that case - just link 3 or 4 of your other discussions./

There may have been some on this site four years ago (particularly, during the threads about who to vote for), but most of the discussions I mentioned were elsewhere, such as Facebook. While I realize this is a debate forum, I simply don't feel like debating in this thread. I don't need to justify that.

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[Salty]

Not quite. I'm not one of those who believe that the government has no place in marriage, there's too many legal benefits such as hospital visitation and other things that don't currently come to mind.
Legally, I believe in marriage equality. Personally and morally, I think same sex sex and marriage is a sin. But I don't believe the government ought to be a theocracy.

Since you don't want to debate -
How about some yes or no answers.

Should there be a minimum age for marriage
Should polygamy be allowed
Should assisted suicide be allowed
Should the govt require a minimum wage
Should the govt require people to wear seat belts
Should the govt require to adults to help their elderly parents
Should the govt require the non-custodial parent to pay the child college education

 

[evenifigoalone]

Since you don't want to debate -
How about some yes or no answers.

Should there be a minimum age for marriage
Should polygamy be allowed
Should assisted suicide be allowed
Should the govt require a minimum wage
Should the govt require people to wear seat belts
Should the govt require to adults to help their elderly parents
Should the govt require the non-custodial parent to pay the child college education

I'm gonna say yes
unsure
unsure
unsure
unsure
unsure
no

 

[Reynolds]

Cry me a river

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I am not the one with the logic problem.
All laws are legislated morality.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I am not the one with the logic problem.

Your taunts will not work. Been over this hundreds of times with far better people.
I am confident in my position and capable of defending it. But not everything has to lead to debate, and not every demand for debate needs to be answered.

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[Salty]

Your taunts will not work. Been over this hundreds of times with far better people.
I am confident in my position and capable of defending it. But not everything has to lead to debate, and not every demand for debate needs to be answered.

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So what is the difference between homosexual marriage and polygamy ?

 

[Adonia]

So what is the difference between homosexual marriage and polygamy ?

Polygamy was once an appropriate form of marriage spoken about in the Scriptures, so called homosexual marriage never was.

 

[evenifigoalone]

So what is the difference between homosexual marriage and polygamy ?

I'm not objected to it being recognized by the government on moral grounds. But unsure if there's technical stuff that might make implementing it difficult

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[Reynolds]

Your taunts will not work. Been over this hundreds of times with far better people.
I am confident in my position and capable of defending it. But not everything has to lead to debate, and not every demand for debate needs to be answered.

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Good way of saying your position is illogical.

 

[Salty]

Polygamy was once an appropriate form of marriage spoken about in the Scriptures, so called homosexual marriage never was.

Where does Scripture say that polygamy was appropriate?

 

[Adonia]

Where does Scripture say that polygamy was appropriate?

Exodus 21:10; 2 Chronicles 24: 1-3. Judges 8:30. And there are other examples of the practice.

 

[Salty]

Exodus 21:10; 2 Chronicles 24: 1-3. Judges 8:30. And there are other examples of the practice.

Those passages do not indicate that it was appropriate - rather the verses indicate it occurred.
Chron Might indicate it was appropriate - but it appears there is more to that then whats on the surface.

 

[Covenanter]

My current political views:

Climate change: helping the Earth certainly can't hurt, and we ARE told in the Bible to be stewards of the Earth

Cov - We should be taking this very seriously - there is so much pollution associated with fossil fuels. Wild fires, floods, droughts & famines are serious problems.

Illegal immigration: think it should be dealt with, but changing the immigration laws could also make legal immigration easier than it is

Cov - People are not illegal. The pressure is from countries at war or suffering desperate poverty, often caused by the rich nations. All refugees should be accepted & supported - most want to work & contribute to their new home situation. Separating children from parents is evil.

Gun control: no

Cov - the UK has had gun control for centuries - US should try it.

Welfare: necessary

Cov - necessary to care for the poor & needy with increased taxation including the rich & corporations. Money given as welfare is immediately spent & stays in circulation. Tax reduction removes money from circulation often into off-shore tax havens.

Taxes: necessary, but there is certainly such a thing as being overtaxed

Cov - see previous

Healthcare: unsure

Cov - the UK NHS system provides free health care at the point of need. It's paid for out of earnings (special taxes) when we are well as a national insurance. Otherwise health care becomes cripplingly expensive for those in need and for their carers.

Abortion: prolife

Cov - prolife

Gay marriage: pro gay marriage

Cov - Scripture has clear standards with regard to sex. Marriage is for one man with one woman. This should be the norm recognised by the authorities. However if a corrupt state allows for sexual deviation, including homosexual marriage, then this should not be recognised by Christians in any official way. But we are all sinners & should accept all as people who need Christ. What sinners do in private is their concern, & should not be subject to legislation. What they teach in schools is a matter of Christian (& non-Christian) concern. In the UK Christians have lost their jobs for not recognising trans-sexuals.

Religious freedom to refuse service: unsure

Cov - I presume military service. Our countries are not under thread, except where our militaries are active. Conscientious objection should be allowed.

Marijuana: legalize it

Cov - Cautiously legalised, particularly where medical properties are needed, as for pain control & epilepsy.

In short, my political alignment..... No man's land

Cov - Christian socialist - NOT authoritarian communist.

I'm sure there's others that haven't come to mind, but yeah
Your turn

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[MartyF]

Climate change: I sure hope so. Peach trees won't bloom if the seasons don't change.
Gun control: Definitely. I always make sure I have control over my guns.
Welfare: Those who won't work don't eat.
Taxes: should be flat - no deductions or exemptions.
Healthcare: prices should be publicly posted and the same price should apply to all. Those who can't afford will be allowed non-dischargeable interest-free loans from the government.
Abortion: decided by the states.
Gay marriage: The government should not recognize marriage - period. With no deductions for being married or having children, marriage is no longer needed except for religious reasons.
Religious freedom to refuse service: Not allowed for professions where the state limits the number of professionals such as medicine, police support, education, etc.
Marijuana: Stop the war on drugs.

 

[Adonia]

Those passages do not indicate that it was appropriate - rather the verses indicate it occurred.

Of course. Notice though how no one was taken out because of the practice.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I'm with JMac on most things politics:
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The big exception is I'm a theonomist that believes we need a constitutional amendment to make the bible the source of our laws.

There are other differences, but in general,
Bible = foundation of all political thought

 

[Salty]

The big exception is I'm a theonomist that believes we need a constitutional amendment to make the bible the source of our laws.

There are other differences, but in general,
Bible = foundation of all political thought

Have you read Article 6 - section 3 of the COTUS?
3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
(Bold print -my emphasis)

Lets say - we did do that - who would determine the interpretation of the Bible, which version and ect.
Granted - there are many things that would be obvious - murder, stealing, ect.
But, would that include law of the pharisees, would women be prohibited from talking, and ect.
And why should an atheist be forced to follow all Biblical law?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Have you read Article 6 - section 3 of the COTUS?
3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
(Bold print -my emphasis)

Lets say - we did do that - who would determine the interpretation of the Bible, which version and ect.
Granted - there are many things that would be obvious - murder, stealing, ect.
But, would that include law of the pharisees, would women be prohibited from talking, and ect.
And why should an atheist be forced to follow all Biblical law?

Yes, I read that. You reminded me of it though. My counterargument is simple.

1. If you read the Supreme Court decisions to see what they draw from, it is all secular philosophies at loggerheads. Really it is a pick your poison kind of choice. A big problem with countering secular philosophy with secular philosophy is that there is no deeper ground for any of them. Whither ontology?

2. If Jesus invades with the angels today, atheists, really Deists according to scripture, will be judged by Christ's Law in body and soul. If we will judge even angels by Christ's Law, what is it to judge atheists. If atheists are sent to hell for Christ's Law, then why avoid giving them tickets or jail time for it now.

3. If we argue from scripture for our laws, though in a divided manner, at least we have the proper ground for morality as the basis of our arguments.

 

[Salty]

Of course, when Christ returns for his 1,000 year reign - things will be different.
but until then....