Featured Zealous of good works....the Christian life!

Oh, unteachable, huh?

Or:"while I appreciate the views of others,...

Or: who is to say who is correct on any issue?

Everything is completely up in the air as far as you are concerned?

Would you kindly give samples of my "convoluted views of Scripture" please? Or was that just
an immature stomp of your foot to think of something mean to say?

As if there is such a thing as non-doctrinal theology! ;-)

Has anyone here made that claim? Of course not. So why say it?

"Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counsellor? (Ro. 11:33,34 NIV)

 

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Icon - I really appreciate hearing from you. It gives me great confidence to know that YOU think I am way off on this. It makes me feel safe and sound knowing that there are members, such as yourself, who are willing to jump in and correct me when I fall off the narrow path, doctrinally speaking! Your wisdom and intellect inspire me greatly, and your gentle nudge during my times of being off kilter is meaningful, more meaningful than you will ever know!

Allow me to take your REBUKE under advisement, and when God tells me that you and the others are right, and I am wrong; I'll get back with you! Shalom! Sleep
doctrinal

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Icon - I really appreciate hearing from you. It gives me great confidence to know that YOU think I am way off on this. It makes me feel safe and sound knowing that there are members, such as yourself, who are willing to jump in and correct me when I fall off the narrow path, doctrinal speaking! Your wisdom and intellect inspire me greatly, and your gentle nudge during my times of being off kilter is meaningful, more meaningful than you will ever know!

Allow me to take your REBUKE under advisement, and when God tells me that you and the others are right and I am wrong, I'll get back with you! Shalom! Sleep

 

Oh please! the problem is not being unteachable, but rather having no respect for you! Sorry, but there is nothing other than the ties that bind us in His blood, that bring us into fellowship! As for your "better-than-thou" mannerisms, that is what separates us! Thank God your attitudes and my unteachable style will be laid to rest when we get to heaven! Maybe after we both hear from the Master, we can be friends! Until then, shove off!

 

That is a problem you will have to work out. You objected when I said that others have taken-you-to-task, claiming that only God the Father can do that. Do you mean to tell everyone here that your wife,employer, friend nor anyone else has given you some good advice about changing your ways in certain areas? I sincerely doubt that is the case.

I still am interested in hearing about my "convoluted views of Scripture" as you stated it. Or will you admit that you said that merely out of spite?

 

Demand a response. Stomp your feet. Hold your breath. However, here is the answer! If you are supporting the others who took me to task, then that can simply mean that you agree with their convoluted theology, and that can only make you as convoluted at I see them as being! Whistling

 

Oh now you are a psychologist too? Master theologian and Monday morning shrink! Stick to your chosen career! Roflmao

 

I am not going to enter into the vitriol and rancor, but I do want to address this one comment of yours. I do so not with the intent to criticize, but to add a different understanding.

You are actually touching on a school of hermeneutical thought. Is scripture interpreted by scripture, or by its historical-grammatical setting? The orthodox view is that scripture is interpreted by scripture. The challenge that is presented to the interpreter is that we often do not understand the historical-grammatical setting when we look at scripture with 21st century understanding. In other words, scripture's meaning never changes, but the the understanding of the author, and his audience, during the time it was written may be different than the way in which we understand scripture. That is partially why it took until the Protestant Reformation for critical theological scholarship to advance.

It can be argued that, during the Reformation age, advances in theological understanding increased exponentially. This advance continued into the Puritan age. It was due to the fact that for nearly a thousand years serious scholarship was confined to a small ecclesiastical cadre within the Roman Catholic system. But here we are 498 years removed from Martin Luther's actions at the Wittenberg Castle Church. The Church now benefits from the work of those who preceded us. It is hubris to think that we are somehow smarter and better informed just because we live in a more "enlightened" age. Could the Puritans Samuel Rutherford or John Bunyan have imagined the political, social, and technological problems that we face today? Probably only in the abstract. But they lived in a time of political, social, and technological upheaval that had a similar impact as our contemporary culture does to us.

As way of example, when I look at the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, I see a document that was attested to by 37 pastors and theologians. These men labored to articulate their jointly-held doctrinal beliefs. Here we are 326 years later. Much has changed in the world since 1689. The United States of America was only a colony at the time. Life expectancy was only in the 40's in colonial America. The fastest form of travel was still the horse. But speaking only from the Calvinist perspective, the theological conclusions of those 37 men who signed their name to that confession have yet to be refuted. It is not that there findings somehow were on par with Holy Scripture. Perish the thought! It is that their conclusions have transcended four centuries, and the birth and death of contemporary cultures and nations.

So, what is my point?

When I read the words of the early Reformers, Puritans, and writers during the First Great Awakening, I experience a spiritual gravity that is largely missing by modern authors. Perhaps my criticism is a bit unfair. After all, the rapidity of scholarly advancement in theology is in the post-critical mass stage. Most of the good scholars today are writing to maintain the truth we currently have as opposed to uncovering long dormant truth, as is what happened during the Reformation and post-Reformation age. I have even read modern authors who have said, "Here is how Spurgeon would have understood "X" today". And while that may be true (as far as understanding modernity goes), it does not change the basic theological conclusions held by Spurgeon, or countless other long dead theologians.

In summary, truth is truth. The source of all revealed truth is the Word of God, with God being the source of all truth. Let us not despise the work of those who labored before us, but let us profit by their work, so long as we accurately view it through the lens of scripture.

 

That is my view exactly. I have no problem with the words or interpretations of past scholars .... but we need to remain obedient to how the scripture and how current/present circumstances demand interpretation and application of said scripture. Thus I believe scripture will interpret itself with study, comparison of the Greek or Hebrew, and the use of commentaries. Taking ALL those ingredients or variables into hand, through pray and discernment I come to my conclusions. Am I always correct? Heaven forbid if I even begin to think I have cornered the solutions and answers for which I sought His input.

No one, including myself, are NOT infallible. For this reason alone, time and experince has taught me that while I believe in eternal security, I do not believe in the 'chosen' doctrine put forward by Calvin. What does that make me? I would like to think it makes me enlightened to what I believe the Lord has spoken into my ear and spirit. And only in the end will I discover my errors. And that is how it should be. I do not push my theology, and I expect others to do the same. For years I preached divorce was sin, and remarriage even worse. Then I went through a divorce, was remarried, and discovered that God had not abandoned me, nor did He remove my calling. Divorce and remarriage, in my case, made me more empathetic, receptive and able to minister to those who have failed/sinned, and still want to believe God did not quit on them.

For years I taught that only those who had been picked of God before time would be saved, then I met souls hungering for His grace, and saw God miraculously touch their life and bring them into the family, and that salvation came via "free will!" Another hard core doctrine had been challenged, and through spiritual wrestling, study, and prayer .... God demonstrated to me His real plan, and it was based on the words Jesus spoke in John 3:16.

If we can't be open to change, than there is no way the church can honestly move through the process of "sanctification!"

Sure, in the hearts and minds of many on this board, my views may be heresy. But, one man's heresy is another man's enlightenment. In end my beliefs will not separate me from the love of God ... and only He has the right to tell me where I was correct, and where I was off base. I am not opposed to listening to others views, I am merely incensed when those people insist that they are right, dismissing my views as mere rubbish. Shalom!

 

So you are changing your tune then.

Many commentaries have been written by long-since dead men. You railed against their value in past posts. Now they are acceptable?

The above demands a rewrite. You meant :"No one, including myself is infallible."

What? You don't want to give a reason for the hope that lies within? Theology is what you believe --the doctrines you hold --hopefully based on God's Word. This forum is devoted to explaining why we believe what we believe. Where have you been?

Who gave them this hunger or thirst? Yes, God did. His grace brought them to Himself. The Father drew them into union with the Son.

You're doing well.

Nah, train wreck! God touched their lives, gave them life from above. They didn't accomplish their own salvation. Salvation is all of God --from start to finish. The will of man is enslaved by the bonds of sin until the Lord intervenes in one's life. There is no such entity as free-will. It is a fiction which runs counter to God's Holy word.

If you are His child, nothing can separate you from the love of God. And God doesn't demand perfection of all beliefs. But to in essence say that no matter what beliefs are held one is still in the Kingdom is mistaken doctrine.

You don't believe that brothers and sisters in the Lord have any right to show where you may be mistaken in your doctrine?

 

I desire to butt into the thread to ask a question.

Does God not direct the path of those that truly love Him?

The reason I ask is that most certainly there are many principles of Scriptures that should be established in the believer as both rock to stand and marker blazed.

Is it possible that God allows a pastor to undergo the heartache of seeing the love of his life fade, either by the partner being pulled into this world considering them more important than God (thinking of Charles Weigle) or by sickness - even death?

As one who does accept that God is the one that gives those of His choosing to Christ, I must also accept that God also is in control of what happens in the daily living of those He chose. That does not remove human responsibility for their actions, rather acknowledges that God knew from the "get go" ALL that would "happen" and even the thoughts and intentions of the heart long before they were even thought and intention-ed.

So, a pastor becomes disqualified from the pastorate because of divorce, and there is a seeming cloud over their influence and testimony for Christ. Rightly so, and more important, it is so because God just may have a specific "ministry" for that person - something beyond the typical pastorate.

What bothers me is if a believer (especially one who was/is a pastor) begins to shift the principles of Scripture to fit their circumstances. Either the Scriptures are unchangeable or they are pliable. For me, I must conform to Scriptures, not the other way around.

I have seen many pastors who attempted to justify sin, and sinfulness, by such statements as "I used to teach..."

Now, at times, what "used to be taught" perhaps was wrong and needed changed. That is putting the superiority of Scriptures above personal drive and ambition. But when the person places the Scriptures as subordinate, that is the problem.

 

So, that is what this is ALL about. I "dissed" 25 of your posts with no Biblical. How childish can you get? Pity party time. I owe you, or any other man any explanation, the only person I owe an explanation to is God. And you fall way short or being anything other than a sinner who like myself, has been forgiven.

Sorry I rained on your parade. Is their a rule that says we must give a reason when we rate another's post? I continue to get dislikes, dumbs, etc., and I am not attacking those who express an opinion, nor am I demanding an answer for that rating, or let alone, KEEPING COUNT.

Grow up Icon .... I really thought you were more mature than this! Notworthy

 

To all the pharisee's. You know who you are! I discovered years ago, that there are those who like and or love you in this life .... and there are those who hate you!

I choose only to serve Him, and please Him. As for the rest of you, whether you like me; agree with; or condemn me .... that is between you and your god. As for me and my God, He is all that I live for, and love to please.

There is no further need responding to your comments. You believe what you want no matter what I say, so live in peace with you opinions, and peace be upon you all. I am who I am. I am who I believe God has called me to be. I move in the gifts you despise and deny, and that is your right, as much as it is mine to believe in the gifts of Pentecost as well as to possess them. I will never be embarrassed to move in the gifts, and while I do not judge you for denying their very existence, or possessing and utilizing them, I know you do not feel the same for me and my views.

In the future, I would hope that you do not mock or ridicule me for the things you do not accept, just like I do not ridicule you for being empty without the gifts He equips us with.

This is the final word on my behalf, so haters continue to hate. Just save web space and do not bait me any longer, because I absolutely refuse to get sucked into your "better-than-thou" games! Shalom! See you on the other side,