Zealous of good works....the Christian life!

[Rippon]

Excuse me, but the only person who can 'take me to task' is the Father.

Oh, unteachable, huh?

While I appreciate others views,

Or:"while I appreciate the views of others,...

who is to say whom is correct on any issue?

Or: who is to say who is correct on any issue?

Everything is completely up in the air as far as you are concerned?

you fail to impress anyone with your convoluted views of scripture.

Would you kindly give samples of my "convoluted views of Scripture" please? Or was that just
an immature stomp of your foot to think of something mean to say?

It is okay to agree to disagree when it comes to doctrinal theology,

As if there is such a thing as non-doctrinal theology! ;-)

but not one of you hold all the answers to the infinite mysteries of Jehovah God.

Has anyone here made that claim? Of course not. So why say it?

"Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counsellor? (Ro. 11:33,34 NIV)

 

[Iconoclast]

dude,

Hello DUDE

Once again, you are misquoting me, and using your interpretation to discredit me!

Well now....I do not want to misquote anyone or give some falsehood that would discredit someone. let's look at this together to see where the truth is on this matter

I did not say that your use of quotes from past theologians was a bad thing

,
So....you meant this to be a "good thing"?
when you said this?

Unfortunately there are those who think that quoting old, dead theologians gives their argument more validity

First off....I posted a sermon and pulled out 7-8 statements meant for discussion.
I offered one or two statements on it. If anyone wanted to read the sermon and agree or disagree, offer support or be critical that was what was asked. I made each statement a different color to keep them where each one could be singled out or used as a group.

The other hostile poster remarked that he did not care what CHS said.....
you at the end of your first response said;

I like your response

No one is forced to read any thread here. DID YOU EVEN READ THE SERMON?

You start off saying;

Unfortunately there are those who think that quoting old, dead theologians gives their argument more validity

So what does this mean? Is this a positive comment? Who are "those who quote"?? That was not me? You meant this as a positive or negative?

Once you go negative it is not a problem, but you are then going to get a response correct?

but rather your use of these quotes to support your views of scripture, or scripture itself

Reading this sermon put in my mind the error I see on this topic here on BB everyday. I thought it would be good to start a discussion on it.

Instead of ignoring the sermon and being critical of "old dead theologians"...why not read the sermon...see what you think...agree or disagree and explain why?

There was a time when what you call "old dead theologians "were alive here on earth.
God is the God of the living. Just because they are not physically here does not mean they ceased to exist.

How about looking at it this way....You have never physically seen me yet you read my words and respond to what I have written..... There is no difference.

By the time you read my words on your screen.....they are also history correct? You do not hear me speak them instantly into your ears. So tell me what is the difference.

If it helps you pretend those quoted old dead theologians are living members of BB.....respond to the words.

. I believe that scripture can and should stand on its own merits, not conflated, deflated or inflates by the words of those who lived in their day, and were not cognizant of the way things are in our day and age!

No one questions if scripture stands on it's own merits. When a sermon is preached on titus 2:14 the words and what they mean do not change with the times at all.
This is a foolish statement. Did the greek words change?

and were not cognizant of the way things are in our day and age! [

wrong...eccl 1
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Things are a lot different today than a hundred years ago. Only scripture can surpass time, and be applicable to the needs of His people today!

wrong...
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

I have read and studied as many of the great theologians as the next person, but find that in some and most cases, their meanings or interpretation of scripture was more for their time and certain situations they faced during that period of time

No...their opinions maybe...but scripture NO.

! We are facing an entire set of new trials, temptations and issues today, and we must find truth and guidance from the scripture through the leading of the Holy Spirit, who Christ told us was given to enlighten us! Or, is that not the truth? John 14:25-26, "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you

.

No..it is not the truth. Why do I say that? Christians are to "Spirit led"...yes.
How you have misused it here ...is not the truth.....let's look at the quote...the scripture-

{These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you}
Jesus clearly identifies this statement as being made to the Apostles. He was speaking face to face with them....while abiding with you
The Father is going to send the Spirit.....to them

{He will teach you all things,} the Apostles were unique...this promise was to them alone as it is written....That is why we have scripture written by the Apostles.
They were not told how to build washing machines, but rather all things we need to know that pertain to life and godliness

{and bring to your remembrance }

You cannot remember any of this DUDE because you were not there in the first place to hear Jesus speak this into your ears...so how can you remember something you never heard in the first place
{all that I said to you}

The fact is none of us were there to hear Jesus physically, but the Apostles

Spurgeon, Wesley, Calvin, and my favorite on prayer adages, EM Bounds! But NOTHING TAKES THE PLACE OF SCRIPTURE! Nor should it!

Could you show where anyone said anything takes the place of scripture?

So I stand by my original criticism of your post, if what you say is for our overall edification and good, let the scripture stand alone and on its own merits, and not upon your interpretation or the interpretations of others who have since passed!

And...I will continue to be critical of your post.

 

[Iconoclast]

dude,

Well and fine and good, Icon! But when you want to slant that teaching of scripture towards Calvin or Armenian views, or Catholicism or Wesley, Hagge or Jim Jones, you need to be careful!

We need to be careful about everything scriptural.

Why not just share your thoughts without using adages of dead men for a supportive foundation!

Because many times "shared thoughts " are in reality...shared ignorance.
What do I mean?
If I was that smart....I would not be driving a truck and under achieving to a certain extent.
All work is honorable, even truck driving.....however those who are smart find a way to excel. Early in life before I was a Christian I followed after sin and made poor choices that had consequences. If you sow to the flesh you reap corruption. You can get locked in once you go down a certain path of wrong choices.
Driving up and down the interstate getting cut of, boxed in, given the finger, dealing with weather, [today, driving from ala, to MS, la, and Houston by weds}and all such other benefits of this job......by the end of the day...how valuable are my own thoughts going to be????SickSickSick
I use sermonaudio often so you do not see me on your evening news choking some driver in the middle of a traffic jamRoflmao
The links I pick out, the sermons offered , are by men with superior grace and gifts.
Are they infallible and as the disgruntled poster offered...we need to idolize them? NO.

It is not wrong to know who you are and not exceed your paygrade...
rom12;3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Your zealous nature and love of God was never in question, like you are trying to make mine out to be,

I find you a likeable personality or I would not interact with you.
That being said....I think you offer a really mixed bag of ideas....we all do.
however when you are off ...you are way off and some of the ideas are dangerous and need to be opposed very strongly.
I have let many go as other posters have dealt with you so I did not need to pile on.Thumbsup

but rather the use of some other theologian's words, who may have been was wise beyond his years,

they were many times right on the money...no need to not use them...it is about the ideas, words , and thoughts given in scripture....not who offers them.

 

[Iconoclast]

Strange. I thought the Bible said that teachers were God's gift to the church. Oh, that's only the ones who are still alive. The great teachers of previous days have nothing to teach us, I guess.

I like to read Spurgeon and John Wesley in tandem. I have long been a fan of C.S. Lewis (an anti-Calvinist whose own testimony gives weight to unconditional election) and have come to appreciate G.K. Chesterton who -- though a Catholic (gasp) and anti-Calvinist -- stands firm on the absolute truth of Christianity and attacks relativism and materialism with a relish we can only hope to emulate.

Forgive me for an overlong quote from Lewis:



Oops, there I am quoting the dead ...

Thanks for sharing the voices of the dead...anything that stimulates new thoughts can be valuable.

 

[righteousdude2]

Oh, unteachable, huh?

Or:"while I appreciate the views of others,...

Or: who is to say who is correct on any issue?

Everything is completely up in the air as far as you are concerned?

Would you kindly give samples of my "convoluted views of Scripture" please? Or was that just
an immature stomp of your foot to think of something mean to say?

As if there is such a thing as non-doctrinal theology! ;-)

Has anyone here made that claim? Of course not. So why say it?

"Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counsellor? (Ro. 11:33,34 NIV)

[URL=http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/know-it-all_zpsedb49628.jpg.html] [/URL]​

 

[righteousdude2]

That being said....I think you offer a really mixed bag of ideas....we all do. however when you are off ...you are way off and some of the ideas are dangerous and need to be opposed very strongly. I have let many go as other posters have dealt with you so I did not need to pile on.Thumbsup.

[URL=http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/1395144101318347_zpsa24a3f6d.jpg.html]

Icon - I really appreciate hearing from you. It gives me great confidence to know that YOU think I am way off on this. It makes me feel safe and sound knowing that there are members, such as yourself, who are willing to jump in and correct me when I fall off the narrow path, doctrinally speaking! Your wisdom and intellect inspire me greatly, and your gentle nudge during my times of being off kilter is meaningful, more meaningful than you will ever know!

Allow me to take your REBUKE under advisement, and when God tells me that you and the others are right, and I am wrong; I'll get back with you! Shalom! Sleep [/URL]
doctrinal

That being said....I think you offer a really mixed bag of ideas....we all do. however when you are off ...you are way off and some of the ideas are dangerous and need to be opposed very strongly. I have let many go as other posters have dealt with you so I did not need to pile on.Thumbsup.

​

[URL=http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/1395144101318347_zpsa24a3f6d.jpg.html]

Icon - I really appreciate hearing from you. It gives me great confidence to know that YOU think I am way off on this. It makes me feel safe and sound knowing that there are members, such as yourself, who are willing to jump in and correct me when I fall off the narrow path, doctrinal speaking! Your wisdom and intellect inspire me greatly, and your gentle nudge during my times of being off kilter is meaningful, more meaningful than you will ever know!

Allow me to take your REBUKE under advisement, and when God tells me that you and the others are right and I am wrong, I'll get back with you! Shalom! Sleep [/URL]

 

[righteousdude2]

Oh, unteachable, huh?

Oh please! the problem is not being unteachable, but rather having no respect for you! Sorry, but there is nothing other than the ties that bind us in His blood, that bring us into fellowship! As for your "better-than-thou" mannerisms, that is what separates us! Thank God your attitudes and my unteachable style will be laid to rest when we get to heaven! Maybe after we both hear from the Master, we can be friends! Until then, shove off!

 

[Iconoclast]

[URL='http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/1395144101318347_zpsa24a3f6d.jpg.html'] [/URL]
[URL='http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/UZwXUe64RxarBR4alhG1_bow_down_zps5bf1499b.jpg.html']
Icon - I really appreciate hearing from you. It gives me great confidence to know that YOU think I am way off on this. It makes me feel safe and sound knowing that there are members, such as yourself, who are willing to jump in and correct me when I fall off the narrow path, doctrinally speaking! Your wisdom and intellect inspire me greatly, and your gentle nudge during my times of being off kilter is meaningful, more meaningful than you will ever know!

Allow me to take your REBUKE under advisement, and when God tells me that you and the others are right, and I am wrong; I'll get back with you! Shalom! Sleep
doctrinal

​

[URL='http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/1395144101318347_zpsa24a3f6d.jpg.html'] [/URL]
[URL='http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/UZwXUe64RxarBR4alhG1_bow_down_zps5bf1499b.jpg.html']
Icon - I really appreciate hearing from you. It gives me great confidence to know that YOU think I am way off on this. It makes me feel safe and sound knowing that there are members, such as yourself, who are willing to jump in and correct me when I fall off the narrow path, doctrinal speaking! Your wisdom and intellect inspire me greatly, and your gentle nudge during my times of being off kilter is meaningful, more meaningful than you will ever know!

Allow me to take your REBUKE under advisement, and when God tells me that you and the others are right and I am wrong, I'll get back with you! Shalom! Sleep [/URL][/URL]

[URL='http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/airskypony/media/UZwXUe64RxarBR4alhG1_bow_down_zps5bf1499b.jpg.html']

Dude come back in from the edge of the ledge...we all have imaginations.
Stay in the scripture Dude...even if it comes from dead theologians[/URL]

 

[Rippon]

Oh please! the problem is not being unteachable, but rather having no respect for you!

That is a problem you will have to work out. You objected when I said that others have taken-you-to-task, claiming that only God the Father can do that. Do you mean to tell everyone here that your wife,employer, friend nor anyone else has given you some good advice about changing your ways in certain areas? I sincerely doubt that is the case.

I still am interested in hearing about my "convoluted views of Scripture" as you stated it. Or will you admit that you said that merely out of spite?

 

[righteousdude2]

That is a problem you will have to work out. You objected when I said that others have taken-you-to-task, claiming that only God the Father can do that. Do you mean to tell everyone here that your wife,employer, friend nor anyone else has given you some good advice about changing your ways in certain areas? I sincerely doubt that is the case.

I still am interested in hearing about my "convoluted views of Scripture" as you stated it. Or will you admit that you said that merely out of spite?

Demand a response. Stomp your feet. Hold your breath. However, here is the answer! If you are supporting the others who took me to task, then that can simply mean that you agree with their convoluted theology, and that can only make you as convoluted at I see them as being! Whistling

 

[righteousdude2]

Dude come back in from the edge of the ledge...we all have imaginations.
Stay in the scripture Dude...even if it comes from dead theologians

Oh now you are a psychologist too? Master theologian and Monday morning shrink! Stick to your chosen career! Roflmao

 

[Reformed]

I believe that scripture can and should stand on its own merits, not conflated, deflated or inflates by the words of those who lived in their day, and were not cognizant of the way things are in our day and age! Things are a lot different today than a hundred years ago. Only scripture can surpass time, and be applicable to the needs of His people today!

I am not going to enter into the vitriol and rancor, but I do want to address this one comment of yours. I do so not with the intent to criticize, but to add a different understanding.

You are actually touching on a school of hermeneutical thought. Is scripture interpreted by scripture, or by its historical-grammatical setting? The orthodox view is that scripture is interpreted by scripture. The challenge that is presented to the interpreter is that we often do not understand the historical-grammatical setting when we look at scripture with 21st century understanding. In other words, scripture's meaning never changes, but the the understanding of the author, and his audience, during the time it was written may be different than the way in which we understand scripture. That is partially why it took until the Protestant Reformation for critical theological scholarship to advance.

It can be argued that, during the Reformation age, advances in theological understanding increased exponentially. This advance continued into the Puritan age. It was due to the fact that for nearly a thousand years serious scholarship was confined to a small ecclesiastical cadre within the Roman Catholic system. But here we are 498 years removed from Martin Luther's actions at the Wittenberg Castle Church. The Church now benefits from the work of those who preceded us. It is hubris to think that we are somehow smarter and better informed just because we live in a more "enlightened" age. Could the Puritans Samuel Rutherford or John Bunyan have imagined the political, social, and technological problems that we face today? Probably only in the abstract. But they lived in a time of political, social, and technological upheaval that had a similar impact as our contemporary culture does to us.

As way of example, when I look at the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, I see a document that was attested to by 37 pastors and theologians. These men labored to articulate their jointly-held doctrinal beliefs. Here we are 326 years later. Much has changed in the world since 1689. The United States of America was only a colony at the time. Life expectancy was only in the 40's in colonial America. The fastest form of travel was still the horse. But speaking only from the Calvinist perspective, the theological conclusions of those 37 men who signed their name to that confession have yet to be refuted. It is not that there findings somehow were on par with Holy Scripture. Perish the thought! It is that their conclusions have transcended four centuries, and the birth and death of contemporary cultures and nations.

So, what is my point?

When I read the words of the early Reformers, Puritans, and writers during the First Great Awakening, I experience a spiritual gravity that is largely missing by modern authors. Perhaps my criticism is a bit unfair. After all, the rapidity of scholarly advancement in theology is in the post-critical mass stage. Most of the good scholars today are writing to maintain the truth we currently have as opposed to uncovering long dormant truth, as is what happened during the Reformation and post-Reformation age. I have even read modern authors who have said, "Here is how Spurgeon would have understood "X" today". And while that may be true (as far as understanding modernity goes), it does not change the basic theological conclusions held by Spurgeon, or countless other long dead theologians.

In summary, truth is truth. The source of all revealed truth is the Word of God, with God being the source of all truth. Let us not despise the work of those who labored before us, but let us profit by their work, so long as we accurately view it through the lens of scripture.

 

[righteousdude2]

I am not going to enter into the vitriol and rancor, but I do want to address this one comment of yours. I do so not with the intent to criticize, but to add a different understanding.

You are actually touching on a school of hermeneutical thought. Is scripture interpreted by scripture, or by its historical-grammatical setting? The orthodox view is that scripture is interpreted by scripture. The challenge that is presented to the interpreter is that we often do not understand the historical-grammatical setting when we look at scripture with 21st century understanding. In other words, scripture's meaning never changes, but the the understanding of the author, and his audience, during the time it was written may be different than the way in which we understand scripture. That is partially why it took until the Protestant Reformation for critical theological scholarship to advance.

It can be argued that, during the Reformation age, advances in theological understanding increased exponentially. This advance continued into the Puritan age. It was due to the fact that for nearly a thousand years serious scholarship was confined to a small ecclesiastical cadre within the Roman Catholic system. But here we are 498 years removed from Martin Luther's actions at the Wittenberg Castle Church. The Church now benefits from the work of those who preceded us. It is hubris to think that we are somehow smarter and better informed just because we live in a more "enlightened" age. Could the Puritans Samuel Rutherford or John Bunyan have imagined the political, social, and technological problems that we face today? Probably only in the abstract. But they lived in a time of political, social, and technological upheaval that had a similar impact as our contemporary culture does to us.

As way of example, when I look at the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, I see a document that was attested to by 37 pastors and theologians. These men labored to articulate their jointly-held doctrinal beliefs. Here we are 326 years later. Much has changed in the world since 1689. The United States of America was only a colony at the time. Life expectancy was only in the 40's in colonial America. The fastest form of travel was still the horse. But speaking only from the Calvinist perspective, the theological conclusions of those 37 men who signed their name to that confession have yet to be refuted. It is not that there findings somehow were on par with Holy Scripture. Perish the thought! It is that their conclusions have transcended four centuries, and the birth and death of contemporary cultures and nations.

So, what is my point?

When I read the words of the early Reformers, Puritans, and writers during the First Great Awakening, I experience a spiritual gravity that is largely missing by modern authors. Perhaps my criticism is a bit unfair. After all, the rapidity of scholarly advancement in theology is in the post-critical mass stage. Most of the good scholars today are writing to maintain the truth we currently have as opposed to uncovering long dormant truth, as is what happened during the Reformation and post-Reformation age. I have even read modern authors who have said, "Here is how Spurgeon would have understood "X" today". And while that may be true (as far as understanding modernity goes), it does not change the basic theological conclusions held by Spurgeon, or countless other long dead theologians.

In summary, truth is truth. The source of all revealed truth is the Word of God, with God being the source of all truth. Let us not despise the work of those who labored before us, but let us profit by their work, so long as we accurately view it through the lens of scripture.

That is my view exactly. I have no problem with the words or interpretations of past scholars .... but we need to remain obedient to how the scripture and how current/present circumstances demand interpretation and application of said scripture. Thus I believe scripture will interpret itself with study, comparison of the Greek or Hebrew, and the use of commentaries. Taking ALL those ingredients or variables into hand, through pray and discernment I come to my conclusions. Am I always correct? Heaven forbid if I even begin to think I have cornered the solutions and answers for which I sought His input.

No one, including myself, are NOT infallible. For this reason alone, time and experince has taught me that while I believe in eternal security, I do not believe in the 'chosen' doctrine put forward by Calvin. What does that make me? I would like to think it makes me enlightened to what I believe the Lord has spoken into my ear and spirit. And only in the end will I discover my errors. And that is how it should be. I do not push my theology, and I expect others to do the same. For years I preached divorce was sin, and remarriage even worse. Then I went through a divorce, was remarried, and discovered that God had not abandoned me, nor did He remove my calling. Divorce and remarriage, in my case, made me more empathetic, receptive and able to minister to those who have failed/sinned, and still want to believe God did not quit on them.

For years I taught that only those who had been picked of God before time would be saved, then I met souls hungering for His grace, and saw God miraculously touch their life and bring them into the family, and that salvation came via "free will!" Another hard core doctrine had been challenged, and through spiritual wrestling, study, and prayer .... God demonstrated to me His real plan, and it was based on the words Jesus spoke in John 3:16.

If we can't be open to change, than there is no way the church can honestly move through the process of "sanctification!"

Sure, in the hearts and minds of many on this board, my views may be heresy. But, one man's heresy is another man's enlightenment. In end my beliefs will not separate me from the love of God ... and only He has the right to tell me where I was correct, and where I was off base. I am not opposed to listening to others views, I am merely incensed when those people insist that they are right, dismissing my views as mere rubbish. Shalom!

 

[Iconoclast]

That is my view exactly. I have no problem with the words or interpretations of past scholars .... but we need to remain obedient to how the scripture and how current/present circumstances demand interpretation and application of said scripture. Thus I believe scripture will interpret itself with study, comparison of the Greek or Hebrew, and the use of commentaries. Taking ALL those ingredients or variables into hand, through pray and discernment I come to my conclusions. Am I always correct? Heaven forbid if I even begin to think I have cornered the solutions and answers for which I sought His input.

No one, including myself, are NOT infallible. For this reason alone, time and experince has taught me that while I believe in eternal security, I do not believe in the 'chosen' doctrine put forward by Calvin. What does that make me? I would like to think it makes me enlightened to what I believe the Lord has spoken into my ear and spirit. And only in the end will I discover my errors. And that is how it should be. I do not push my theology, and I expect others to do the same. For years I preached divorce was sin, and remarriage even worse. Then I went through a divorce, was remarried, and discovered that God had not abandoned me, nor did He remove my calling. Divorce and remarriage, in my case, made me more empathetic, receptive and able to minister to those who have failed/sinned, and still want to believe God did not quit on them.

For years I taught that only those who had been picked of God before time would be saved, then I met souls hungering for His grace, and saw God miraculously touch their life and bring them into the family, and that salvation came via "free will!" Another hard core doctrine had been challenged, and through spiritual wrestling, study, and prayer .... God demonstrated to me His real plan, and it was based on the words Jesus spoke in John 3:16.

If we can't be open to change, than there is no way the church can honestly move through the process of "sanctification!"

Sure, in the hearts and minds of many on this board, my views may be heresy. But, one man's heresy is another man's enlightenment. In end my beliefs will not separate me from the love of God ... and only He has the right to tell me where I was correct, and where I was off base. I am not opposed to listening to others views, I am merely incensed when those people insist that they are right, dismissing my views as mere rubbish. Shalom!

You say you agree but in fact you do not. You are being pragmatic not Scriptural.
You knew divorce was wrong and preached against it,until you were involved.....then scripture did not teach it?
What you hold personally is between you and God.
When you post them after speaking against others and get a reply why do you then complain?
You disliked 25 of my posts in a row.....yet you have no biblical response.

 

[Rippon]

That is my view exactly. I have no problem with the words or interpretations of past scholars.

So you are changing your tune then.

Thus I believe scripture will interpret itself with study, comparison of the Greek or Hebrew, and the use of commentaries.

Many commentaries have been written by long-since dead men. You railed against their value in past posts. Now they are acceptable?

No one, including myself, are NOT infallible.

The above demands a rewrite. You meant :"No one, including myself is infallible."

I do not push my theology, and I expect others to do the same.

What? You don't want to give a reason for the hope that lies within? Theology is what you believe --the doctrines you hold --hopefully based on God's Word. This forum is devoted to explaining why we believe what we believe. Where have you been?

For years I taught that only those who had been picked of God before time would be saved, then I met souls hungering for His grace,

Who gave them this hunger or thirst? Yes, God did. His grace brought them to Himself. The Father drew them into union with the Son.

and saw God miraculously touch their life and bring them into the family, and that salvation came

You're doing well.

via "free will!"

Nah, train wreck! God touched their lives, gave them life from above. They didn't accomplish their own salvation. Salvation is all of God --from start to finish. The will of man is enslaved by the bonds of sin until the Lord intervenes in one's life. There is no such entity as free-will. It is a fiction which runs counter to God's Holy word.

In [sic]end my beliefs will not separate me from the love of God

If you are His child, nothing can separate you from the love of God. And God doesn't demand perfection of all beliefs. But to in essence say that no matter what beliefs are held one is still in the Kingdom is mistaken doctrine.

... and only He has the right to tell me where I was correct, and where I was off base.

You don't believe that brothers and sisters in the Lord have any right to show where you may be mistaken in your doctrine?

 

[agedman]

I desire to butt into the thread to ask a question.

Does God not direct the path of those that truly love Him?

The reason I ask is that most certainly there are many principles of Scriptures that should be established in the believer as both rock to stand and marker blazed.

Is it possible that God allows a pastor to undergo the heartache of seeing the love of his life fade, either by the partner being pulled into this world considering them more important than God (thinking of Charles Weigle) or by sickness - even death?

As one who does accept that God is the one that gives those of His choosing to Christ, I must also accept that God also is in control of what happens in the daily living of those He chose. That does not remove human responsibility for their actions, rather acknowledges that God knew from the "get go" ALL that would "happen" and even the thoughts and intentions of the heart long before they were even thought and intention-ed.

So, a pastor becomes disqualified from the pastorate because of divorce, and there is a seeming cloud over their influence and testimony for Christ. Rightly so, and more important, it is so because God just may have a specific "ministry" for that person - something beyond the typical pastorate.

What bothers me is if a believer (especially one who was/is a pastor) begins to shift the principles of Scripture to fit their circumstances. Either the Scriptures are unchangeable or they are pliable. For me, I must conform to Scriptures, not the other way around.

I have seen many pastors who attempted to justify sin, and sinfulness, by such statements as "I used to teach..."

Now, at times, what "used to be taught" perhaps was wrong and needed changed. That is putting the superiority of Scriptures above personal drive and ambition. But when the person places the Scriptures as subordinate, that is the problem.

 

[righteousdude2]

You disliked 25 of my posts in a row.....yet you have no biblical response.

So, that is what this is ALL about. I "dissed" 25 of your posts with no Biblical. How childish can you get? Pity party time. I owe you, or any other man any explanation, the only person I owe an explanation to is God. And you fall way short or being anything other than a sinner who like myself, has been forgiven.

Sorry I rained on your parade. Is their a rule that says we must give a reason when we rate another's post? I continue to get dislikes, dumbs, etc., and I am not attacking those who express an opinion, nor am I demanding an answer for that rating, or let alone, KEEPING COUNT.

Grow up Icon .... I really thought you were more mature than this! Notworthy

 

[Iconoclast]

So, that is what this is ALL about. I "dissed" 25 of your posts with no Biblical. How childish can you get? Pity party time. I owe you, or any other man any explanation, the only person I owe an explanation to is God. And you fall way short or being anything other than a sinner who like myself, has been forgiven.

Sorry I rained on your parade. Is their a rule that says we must give a reason when we rate another's post? I continue to get dislikes, dumbs, etc., and I am not attacking those who express an opinion, nor am I demanding an answer for that rating, or let alone, KEEPING COUNT.

Grow up Icon .... I really thought you were more mature than this! Notworthy

 

[righteousdude2]

To all the pharisee's. You know who you are! I discovered years ago, that there are those who like and or love you in this life .... and there are those who hate you!

I choose only to serve Him, and please Him. As for the rest of you, whether you like me; agree with; or condemn me .... that is between you and your god. As for me and my God, He is all that I live for, and love to please.

There is no further need responding to your comments. You believe what you want no matter what I say, so live in peace with you opinions, and peace be upon you all. I am who I am. I am who I believe God has called me to be. I move in the gifts you despise and deny, and that is your right, as much as it is mine to believe in the gifts of Pentecost as well as to possess them. I will never be embarrassed to move in the gifts, and while I do not judge you for denying their very existence, or possessing and utilizing them, I know you do not feel the same for me and my views.

In the future, I would hope that you do not mock or ridicule me for the things you do not accept, just like I do not ridicule you for being empty without the gifts He equips us with.

This is the final word on my behalf, so haters continue to hate. Just save web space and do not bait me any longer, because I absolutely refuse to get sucked into your "better-than-thou" games! Shalom! See you on the other side,

 

[Iconoclast]

DUDE

So, that is what this is ALL about. I "dissed" 25 of your posts with no Biblical. How childish can you get? Pity party time.

No...most of my concern is your false teaching and attack against biblical teachers from the past...
When i get to my computer and i find 16 alerts in bright red...and I look to see what these are and I see instead of posts to respond to...alerts from you saying you disagree and dislike everything I posted,after I say i did not like one of your posts...it seems as if you wanted to send a message.
Guess what ...i got the message and now you have my attention....

[QUOTEGrow up Icon .... I really thought you were more mature than this.][/QUOTE]
The ironic thing about this....if the president of the Dude fan club....your friend MATT WADE....did this toward you.....you would be whining non stop to anyone who would listen..

I owe you, or any other man any explanation, the only person I owe an explanation to is God

That is correct Dude....we shall each give account of ourselves to God ..So now...I claim the same right to observe your posts which size up very often as word of faith [lite]....with views that are not really Baptist views to begin with, and to post openly against what i see as an attack on the sufficiency of scripture.
You have not responded biblically when answered because you have no biblical ground to stand on.
Saying....I "have a pan theology"...is not a real response. being sarcastic and turning on any who answer you from scripture in the dismissive way you do, while a response...is a poor one.

then there was this gem;

Oh now you are a psychologist too? Master theologian and Monday morning shrink! Stick to your chosen career!

Your use of scripture was in error as happens quite often. So you put me down hoping to avoid dealing with the correction offered. i give an honest assessment of it....So now I am a "shrink"??? you say I am Immature???/ well man up Dude. You want to be critical, and when you get answered biblically or otherwise you bug out and position yourself as the victim.

. And you fall way short or being anything other than a sinner who like myself, has been forgiven.

I am sure I do, that is why i have to look to the old dead theologians that you dismiss for help as you and others avoid real biblical interaction....you still did not read or address the sermon quotes offered in the OP have you??? So you have an agenda also ....

Sorry I rained on your parade. Is their a rule that says we must give a reason when we rate another's post?

Guess what Dude...the only rain falling on my parade is good doctrine;

Deuteronomy 32King James Version (KJV)
32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
and again;

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the Lord for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

All I see from you are thorns and briers.

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