Give a few versus that you feel support your view.:type:
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Can a TRUE believer turn away from the faith?
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
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I feel that a true believer can blame God and even be angry at God for unfortunate events in their lives such as the death of a child or spouse - things that are just tragically circumstantial. We all get emotional sometimes - even with God. Just like Martha did.
John 11:21
"Martha said, "Master, if you'd been here, my brother wouldn't have died."
"Martha said, "Master, if you'd been here, my brother wouldn't have died."
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And a true believer can even blame God (or even Satan) for events in their lives that are really and truly their own fault based on poor personal choices. Just as Jonah threw a temper tantrum when God wanted to save the people of Ninevah and he pouts out in the blistering sun. God provides shade for him even in his whiny tantrum and he still blames God for his foul mood.
Jonah 4:8-11a
The sun came up and God sent a hot, blistering wind from the east. The sun beat down on Jonah's head and he started to faint. He prayed to die: "I'm better off dead!"
Then God said to Jonah, "What right do you have to get angry about this shade tree?" The sun came up and God sent a hot, blistering wind from the east. The sun beat down on Jonah's head and he started to faint. He prayed to die: "I'm better off dead!"
Jonah said, "Plenty of right. It's made me angry enough to die!" God said, "What's this? How is it that you can change your feelings from pleasure to anger overnight about a mere shade tree that you did nothing to get?
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But I do not believe that a genuine and true Christian can dismiss his faith and throw his salvation in the trash can. The true Christian didn't save himself, therefore he cannot "unsave" himself.
Ephesians 2:8-9 - "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
The true Christian will not have a desire to turn his back on his faith and believe in another god or follow another Christian. He is not what he once was - God has made him new.
2 Corinthians 5:17 - "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
A Christian has been bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ. Just like a loaf of bread that you buy at the store cannot take itself back to the store and offer itself to another buyer, there is nothing that a Christian can do to "undo" the blood price of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:18-19 - "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect."
And look at this quote from a commentary.....
A real Christian can get angry with God and blame God for his problems. And unfortunately, a real Christian will sin and grieve the Holy Spirit. And in his sin, he will prostrate his heart and seek God's face and mercy and he will repent. Just like King David, who being a man after God's own heart committing some of the most grievous acts thinkable and admitted his guilt and repented. But a true Christian cannot back out of the blood covenant that God has sealed with the blood of His Son, Jesus Christ.
He will not have the desire nor the capability.
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David Michael Harris
Active Member
I would say no. Even if we are faithless, God remains faithful.
It's about being born again, but it maybe does not end there?
Fear God. I would say.
It's about being born again, but it maybe does not end there?
Fear God. I would say.
Ah....you said more in this sentence than I did in my novella in post #2! :laugh: :flower:
That's it - in that proverbial nutshell. :godisgood:
Charles Stanley says YES in his book entitled "Eteranl Security".
In his book (copyright 1990), Chapter 8 is entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing"; on page 79, he states that those who stop believing are still forgiven.
Stanley's book was republished in 2002 and said the same thing.
In his book (copyright 1990), Chapter 8 is entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing"; on page 79, he states that those who stop believing are still forgiven.
Stanley's book was republished in 2002 and said the same thing.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Sadly that is certainly not the only thing he is wrong on.
John 10:5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice. A TRUE believer has a lie detector....the Holy Spirit who is the spirit of truth.
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Here are just a few verses that I believe were posted originally by Bob Ryan if I am not mistaken. He liked to post in color, so here they are, in glorious color! :thumbsup:
Matt 10:22 but it is he who has endured until the end that will be saved.
Heb 2:1-3
1. For this reason we must pay close attention to what have heard lest we drift away from it
Heb 3:6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
Heb 3:12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ""Today,'' so that none of you will be hardened
by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
1Cor 15:1-2
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Rom 11:22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Col 1:21-23
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY established and STEADFAST and NOT MOVED AWAY
from the HOPE of the Gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which I Paul was made a minister.
Rev 2:7,11,17,26 3:5, 12,21 Eternal life to 'he who overcomes'.
Gal 6:7-9 Don't lose heart in doing good for reap et life IF we ..
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the
Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.
Mark 13:13 Belief + enduring to the END = SAVED
Matthew 24:13 ""But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved."
Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one
who has endured to the end who will be saved."
2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
Matt 10:22 but it is he who has endured until the end that will be saved.
Heb 2:1-3
1. For this reason we must pay close attention to what have heard lest we drift away from it
Heb 3:6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
Heb 3:12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ""Today,'' so that none of you will be hardened
by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
1Cor 15:1-2
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Rom 11:22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Col 1:21-23
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY established and STEADFAST and NOT MOVED AWAY
from the HOPE of the Gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which I Paul was made a minister.
Rev 2:7,11,17,26 3:5, 12,21 Eternal life to 'he who overcomes'.
Gal 6:7-9 Don't lose heart in doing good for reap et life IF we ..
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the
Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.
Mark 13:13 Belief + enduring to the END = SAVED
Matthew 24:13 ""But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved."
Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one
who has endured to the end who will be saved."
2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
What does the word Never mean?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
What does the word 'if' mean?
I asked first!
Doubts about what? That Jesus IS the Son of God? Count me as a Robot for Jesus!
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I must not be a programmed robot Bill. Now my doubt has never been in God’s Word, nor in anything God has done or provided for me, but rather in whether or not I have and am fulfilling the conditions He has set forth in His Word as being essential for my safe landing in His Kingdom to come. He will never leave me, but I can certainly turn my back on Him. He will never forsake me, but I can forsake Him. He will never change but at times I might be or appear to be less than faithful. I may have started well, but am I walking in the light as He is in the light daily? I may have my name written in the flyleaf of my Bible, but have I ever seen my name written down in the Lambs Book of Life? Even so, could the possibility exist I might be one of those the possibility is clearly said to exist in having their names 'blotted out' of the Lamb's book of life?
‘He that endureth until the end, the same shall be saved.’ IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall.’ “Examine yourselves to see IF ye be of the faith.’
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
“Oh Lord, I believe. Help Thou my unbelief.”
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So the Gospel isn't really good news to you untill the next age when you find out?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: That question is so far over the top it hardly deserves an answer. Apart from the promises of the gospel I would be lost without hope. Apart from the promises of the gospel I would still be in my sins. Without the hope of the gospel and the promises yet to be fulfilled in the world to come, nothing would be worth living for! Christ in and working through me this very day is the basis of my hope. What Christ has done for me in the past is only as good as it remains a viable source of obedience for me today. The promises of the future are but held by faith, secured by the work of Christ and only appropriated by faith to my heart personally as I remain obedient to the conditions of salvation this very day. “ He that endueth until the end, the same shall be saved.”
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY established and STEADFAST and NOT MOVED AWAY
from the HOPE of the Gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which I Paul was made a minister. (Thanks BR for the emphasis)
Indeed the good news of the gospel is GOOD news to my heart and soul this very minute! Thank You Lord for your marvelous provision by faith, and the strength to live this day for Thee!
Well you NEVER answered my first question and so I guess it's hard to correspond with you.
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: It depends on the context. What is it?
Jesus speaking of His sheep. John 10:5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice.
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