Reverence in God's house

[dcorbett]

Now that makes much better sense to me. It's not what *I* would call a behavior change since I veiw behavior as an outward action. *I* would call that an attitude change caused by a change in my focus from earthly cares to Godly things. And not at all what I thought you were saying.

Mom, who is in Heaven, always said "Change your attitude, and it will change your behavior" - and that is what I meant. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[tinytim]

Here is a lesson I am trying to drive home at our church...

We don't come to church TO worship... but we come to church WHILE worshipping.

It would be much better if ALL the families of the church were to get up Sunday morning and start worshipping BEFORE they came to church...
Then bring that attitude to the church building...for corporate worship.

Imagine the service that day if everyone would do this!

Then not quit worshipping as we leave, but take the worship into the world...

Anyway, that is what I have been hitting on lately from the pulpit.

 

[abcgrad94]

Here is a lesson I am trying to drive home at our church...

We don't come to church TO worship... but we come to church WHILE worshipping.

It would be much better if ALL the families of the church were to get up Sunday morning and start worshipping BEFORE they came to church...
Then bring that attitude to the church building...for corporate worship.

Imagine the service that day if everyone would do this!

Then not quit worshipping as we leave, but take the worship into the world...

Anyway, that is what I have been hitting on lately from the pulpit.

Amen, brother.

Thank you for steering this thread back to it's original purpose, as it has veered off course the last several pages.

 

[Salty]

... It would be much better if ALL the families of the church were to get up Sunday morning and start worshipping BEFORE they came to church...
Then bring that attitude to the church building...for corporate worship.
...

I contend that a family should wind down activities late Sat afternoon, and begin preparing for worship Sat evening.

Salty

 

[tinytim]

I agree too, Salty..

We have always tried to do that..

We have always made our sons lay out their clothes the night before,
And try to get to bed early.
Then I try to get my head in the game Saturday evening to prepare for Sunday morning.

 

[Aaron]

Got Scripture?

Of course I do. I Cor. 11 and 14.

 

[Aaron]

James 2:1-13
(1) My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism.
(2) Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in.
(3) If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet,"
(4) have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
(5) Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?
(6) But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?
(7) Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?
(8) If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.
(9) But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.
(10) For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
(11) For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
(12) Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
(13) because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

This has nothing to do at all with the topic at hand.

 

[tinytim]

Sure it does Aaron...

When we disrespect our fellow brothers and sisters, we disrespect Jesus.. Matt. 25

If a church can't show respect for everyone the same.. whether they are dressed up or not, then they are being reverent to God...

When you mentioned "exploiting the poor" in one of your posts.. this passage came to mind.. I thought you were talking about this passage.

Guess I was wrong.

 

[Aaron]

You are wrong in a vast array of topics, but that's beside the point. I said you were exploiting the poor by citing their misfortunes to justify your self-will.

 

[dcorbett]

1 CORINTHIANS 14
40 Let all things be done DECENTLY and in ORDER.

 

[Aaron]

I can anticipate the response to the post above, so I'm posting to preempt it.

Some will say, "That's just about tongues," or other such tripe. But it isn't about tongues, it's about "all things" in the assembly. It is a universal governing principle whose meaning is self-contained and independent of the other verses in the chapter. It gives meaning to the context, not the other way around.

And one's manner of dress is certainly contained in the phrase, "all things."

 

[tinytim]

You are wrong in a vast array of topics, but that's beside the point. I said you were exploiting the poor by citing their misfortunes to justify your self-will.

Wrong person there Aaron.. I never said that someone else did....:laugh:
I was trying to help you out....

 

[donnA]

I've seen all kinds working in ministries, a lot of people I've worked with don't own anything nice, some old faded or worn jeans or strech pants, t shirts and sweat shirts, and nothing very nice, usually one pair of shoes gym shoes usually, plus a pair of flip flops, many own nothing to keep them or their feet watm in winter. And yet these people are expected to dress up to go to church, or be told they aren't reverencing God. It's the ones telling them this who are not reverencing God.

 

[Aaron]

. . . . many own nothing to keep them or their feet warm in winter. And yet these people are expected to dress up to go to church, or be told they aren't reverencing God.

This is not true.

 

[paul wassona]

......I've worked with don't own anything nice, some old faded or worn jeans or strech pants, t shirts and sweat shirts, and nothing very nice, usually one pair of shoes gym shoes usually, plus a pair of flip flops........ And yet ......... or be told they aren't reverencing God

Start a clothes closet. We have a Harley rider get saved a few months ago. I didn't know he'd been to ours. One Sunday afternoon I came up to him and asked if he rode his "hawg"? Yes. I then asked did he get many strange looks? Yes, but he wanted people to know where he was going! Said God is putting his marriage back together, but she won't come to church until he gets a car, so I asked why? She won't ride his bike in a dress. So he gets a car, with our help, she came a few times then missed a couple weeks. She comes back and gets gloriously saved. The car broke down and she rode on the back of the hawg until it got fixed. Both of these precious people were meth addicts 6 months ago. God is good!

 

[windcatcher]

A wise pastor found a middle aged man had started coming to his Bible study on Wed. nights. This guy rode a motocycle, dressed in jeans with holes in the knees and wore long sleeve flannel shirts over a tee shirt no matter how warm the weather... and a finely made leather jacket. He would also smoke cigars on the church grounds and even leave during the Bible study to take a smoke break. This attendee was not well groomed: Dirty and smelly. Yes he had an unkempt beard and his long hair never looked combed.... but that later can be explained because of the tobaggan and the bike helmet which he wore. He attended these Bible studies and would take any opportunity to turn the discussion onto the rightness or wrongness of receiving a person whom he would then describe and it appeared he was describing himself. The wise pastor asked him questions about this 'hypothetical' person: Questions like 'does this person have a place with running water where he can bathe?' 'can this person shop for himself or visit the thrift stores?' or 'is he in need of money?' 'is there a reason this person can't do any better?' The man answered yes to the first two questions and no to the last two.... and then turned and asked the good pastor 'why are you asking these questions? What does that have to do with going to church and being received by others in church?' And the pastor replied 'I was just asking to see if he knew better. And if he knows better then he has noone else to blame.' The wisdom I observed in this pastor.... he did not confront directly... although there are times when this is necessary ....... and neither did he attack this person for his own appearance..... but he did bring him around to thinking on his own appearance and establishing that he knew he could do better.

I've heard preaching on appearance and dress which was so specific, one could look around and tell the pastor was specifically speaking to a few in the congregation. If they had been dirty and smelly and vulgar in dress.... ???? but they weren't. They were more casual, clean and neat, and maybe the ladies wore slacks and the men blue jeans.... but they were clean.... and they were attentive and participated in the worship and followed the direction of leadership. A closer relationship before preaching this sermon, and the pastor might have learned what many in the congregation already knew, that these folks had a very frugal budget but were generous in their giving what they could and more generous in helping folks in need by giving of their time and labor asking little or nothing in return: Their lifestyle was very plain and basic and their choice of modest wardrobe was more iin the direction of material which would hold up through work and much wear before discarding. (In this regard.... I've had jeans which last for years, and dress slacks or dresses which look fine.... but get a snag or pulled thread over nothing.)

It was funny: When I visited a Pentacostal church meeting at the invite of a friend. The pastor was preaching.... and may have brought a gospel message ..... but so much of the focus was on the sinfulness of t.v. in the home (set nothing evil before my eye) and the wearing of jewerly and the length of hair in both men and women (my hair was short and I had a simple ring on my finger) and makeup (I had a touch of blush on my lips.... nothing bright). The sermon was so much on appearance that I could not help but be distracted by observing those around me. Many of the young women look anorexic and wore delicate heels and lace or net stockings or shoes with fancy bows, sparkles, or ribbons which tie up their legs. The dresses worn were of modest length.... from below the knee to mid-calf, but the waist and the bodice well formed to not only flatter but emphasize form, and many with ruffles or lace, or sheer and filmy (with the appropriate underlining) and the hair was intricately amassed in curls and braids and piled ontop of the head..... and the shorter ends which were curled around the face or above the brow were a clear indication that there was some cutting of the hair. There were very few wedding rings worn but that didn't keep the ladies from wearing ribbons around their wrist or neck or the men from wearing neck ties. I don't fault them for their choice of dress.... but I could not help but feel a certain amusement at the uniformity of certain values in appearance and their neglect of other values: While the dress could be said to be 'modest' still there was such adornment that it could still be considered seductive. While the hair might be long.... still there was a fancy way of fixing it which goes beyond the simple. No, I can't truthfully say that I had an attitude of reverence because the sermon carried my attention away from focus on God as the message directed more to appearance. I could not help but reflect on the cup of the Pharisees being clean on the outside and God knowing what lies within.

One of the neatest and brief messages I ever heard on dress came from a gentleman who stood in casual and unaffected dress to give a testimony of praise in which, among other things, he included his new clothes which he was wearing that night for the first time. He knew he would also be wearing them for work clothes.... but, as they were new, he wanted to wear them first before the Lord, before he wore them casually at work.

But, in all of this, somehow the meaning of 'reverence' seems to become excessively associated with dress ............when it has to do with an attitude of awe and respect and a realization that we're in the presence of the Lord. And, unfortunately, the presence of the Lord seems to be associated with a building and an address rather than a conciousness of the indwelling of the holy spirit within our own temple and can be reflected in each opportunity we fellowship with other believers or share the word of God.

 

[abcgrad94]

But, in all of this, somehow the meaning of 'reverence' seems to become excessively associated with dress ............when it has to do with an attitude of awe and respect and a realization that we're in the presence of the Lord. And, unfortunately, the presence of the Lord seems to be associated with a building and an address rather than a conciousness of the indwelling of the holy spirit within our own temple and can be reflected in each opportunity we fellowship with other believers or share the word of God.

EXACTLY!!! Our reverence is directed at the Lord, not at a building!

 

[abcgrad94]

This is not true.

We have no reason to doubt Donna's word about this. I've seen this many times myself in the church building even. If you have not had this misfortune, then good for you, but it doesn't make Donna a liar.

When we have an attitude of respect and reverence towards God, it will show in how we treat others. I find it interesting that some of the people who preach "reverence in God's house" cannot even be respectful and kind to their fellow man.

 

[tinytim]

2 Corinthians 6:16
(16) And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people."

1 Corinthians 6:19
(19) Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
(16) Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
(17) If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

In verse 17 of 1 Corinthians 3, what temple is God warning us not to defile?

 

[Johnv]

Call me names all you think you need to, but it doesn't change the spots on you being the leopard either.

Which excuses your unscriptural behavior how?

Spiritually speaking many are doing just that today.

Which doesn't change he fact that Lev 20 has nothing to do with the topic of attire.

It's all a matter of being a gentleman to shower before meeting a lady.

Who said I didn't shower after leaving the gym? You assumed. Even if that was the case, the fact is I asked permission beforehand if she would be offended if I was dressed in fitness attire, and she said it was not a problem at all.

Like I said, call all the names you wish, that doesn't change the fact that God expects his people to go the extra mile in all matters of life's principles and practices. You want to debase all Christianity to the world's level of indecency and lack of good morals and behavior. Until you show something to indicate otherwise you leave us all to come to no other conclusion.

That doesn't change the fact that you cannot support your assertion scripturally. Again, please cite scripture which supports the claim that casual attire is immoral or indecent. There is absolutely nothing in scripture that supports your claim. Nothing whatsoever. Your comments are, therefore, inconsistent with scripture.

I see common sense is not one of your stronger points.

That's funny! You lack the ability to discern between casual attire and immoral attire, and you accuse others of lacking common sense. At least you're being consistent in making statements of hypocrisy.