Whosoever Will

[RAdam]

So you believe the Rich Young Ruler is in hell? That's sad that you believe in a Jesus that would allow one He loves to spend eternity in hell.

 

[RAdam]

So you just decided to believe in Jesus? That's not what Paul said. He said we believe "according to His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ when He raised Him up from the dead and set Him at His own right hand in heavenly places..."

 

[Winman]

So you believe the Rich Young Ruler is in hell? That's sad that you believe in a Jesus that would allow one He loves to spend eternity in hell.

I do not know what became of the young rich ruler, scripture does not tell us. I hope he did come back later and follow Jesus.

But one thing is clear, in this passage he went away unsaved, but the scriptures say Jesus loved him. So Jesus loved him while he was yet an unbeliever.

 

[RAdam]

How can you say he was an unbeliever? The scriptures say he loved his riches more than he wanted to follow Jesus. There are many people in the world and believe in and love Jesus, but love their riches more than really following Christ the way they should. I would dare say most of us have had at least moments of this in our lives.

 

[Winman]

How can you say he was an unbeliever? The scriptures say he loved his riches more than he wanted to follow Jesus. There are many people in the world and believe in and love Jesus, but love their riches more than really following Christ the way they should. I would dare say most of us have had at least moments of this in our lives.

Read the passage carefully.

Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Notice the part I highlighted. Jesus told this young man to sell all his possessions and distribute unto the poor, and then promised if he did so he would have treasures in heaven.

Was he willing to sell all his possessions?

Did he really trust Jesus's promise?

 

[Robert Snow]

It's a trick question to begin with. These verses do not contradict DoG doctrine, but it must be understood they redefine "whosoever will"

We understand whosoever will to be any man who is willing.

They understand whosoever will as those enabled to be willing.

It is the same with "whosoever believeth", non-Cals interpret this to be any man that believes, they define it as those only who are enabled to believe.

So, it's a trick question to begin with. No one is fooled.

That's why I refuse to play Regular's game anymore.

 

[Winman]

That's why I refuse to play Regular's game anymore.

Yes, it's nothing but circular reasoning. Basically they are saying whosoever is willing is willing, and whosoever believes believes.

The only one fooled by this is them.

 

[RAdam]

Notice that Jesus did not say he would have an inheritance in heaven, but treasures in heaven. Kind of like in Matthew 6 when He said, "Lay not up for yourself treasures upon earth," but, "Lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven." In other words, Jesus is telling a man who focuses too much on his earthly riches to get his mind off of these things and focused on God and the true riches. Jesus tells him about discipleship. Deny self, take up your cross, and follow me is His message to the rich young ruler. He's not telling this man how to get to heaven, He's instructing him on how to live here on earth.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Whosoever is enough for me.

 

[kyredneck]

....The love of God is everlasting. It never ends. To say that God loves people that are in hell, or that God loves people but would allow them to go to hell, is not only against scripture it is against the very character of God.

AMEN Brother Adam!

 

[kyredneck]

Jesus told us to be like his father and love those that hate us.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; .....

Winman, God told us to love OUR enemies. Never, ever, once are we told to love HIS enemies.

21 Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts;
24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting. Ps 139

 

[Jon-Marc]

Jesus died for the ungodly. If we are to believe that He only died for some then that would mean those that are not saved are godly rather than ungodly. .

Or that God plays favorites. "I choose to save him but not him even if he begs and pleads with Me to save him." The God I serve doesn't work that way. He said in Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

That tells me that ANYONE can be saved, but unfortunately, pride keeps many from calling on Him.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:28 ESV

Bless You Lord.

 

[AresMan]

Or that God plays favorites. "I choose to save him but not him even if he begs and pleads with Me to save him." The God I serve doesn't work that way. He said in Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of sovereign grace. Absolutely no one who "begs and pleads with Jesus to save him" will be cast out. Election is not arbitrary and it is not independent of repentance and faith.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

God saves all who come to Him/call upon Him to save them. The only reason anyone does this is because God Himself elects them and draws them to Himself. If He did not do this, NNE would call upon Him for salvation.

That tells me that ANYONE can be saved, but unfortunately, pride keeps many from calling on Him.

Romans 10:13 does not say that "ANYONE can be saved." It says that "hos an epikalesetai" or "those who would/shall call" shall be saved. As usual, people read this into the text. They assert universal "ability" where the text merely states qualification.

 

[David Michael Harris]

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of sovereign grace. Absolutely no one who "begs and pleads with Jesus to save him" will be cast out. Election is not arbitrary and it is not independent of repentance and faith.



God saves all who come to Him/call upon Him to save them. The only reason anyone does this is because God Himself elects them and draws them to Himself. If He did not do this, NNE would call upon Him for salvation.

Romans 10:13 does not say that "ANYONE can be saved." It says that "hos an epikalesetai" or "those who would/shall call" shall be saved. As usual, people read this into the text. They assert universal "ability" where the text merely states qualification.

That stinks of Calvinism. The Bible quite clearly says WHOSOEVER. It does not say, For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that the Elect may believe and so be saved. If the Apostle John was a Calvinist he would have used the word Elect and not Whosoever.

Classic example of jumping time again.

Beam me up Scottie.

 

[kyredneck]

That stinks of Calvinism.

That stinks of arminianism.

The Bible quite clearly says WHOSOEVER.

The modern day distortion of John 3:16 with the lopsided focus on 'whosoever believeth', is like placing the emPHASis on the wrong syLAHbull and causes confusion with the topic of God's grace. John 3:16 is not an invitation, it is a statement of fact; a wonderful summation of God's love towards us. Here's the real invitation:

“Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

You absolutely must consider the two preceding lead-in verses to Jn 3:16:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3:14,15

Referring to:

And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21:8

Take note; the brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten.

.........They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17

It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for Christ..........another example of regeneration BEFORE belief.

Fortunate indeed are those that have been made to feel the serpent's awful sting. Fortunate are those that have been made to hunger and thirst after righteousness.

It does not say, For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that the Elect may believe and so be saved.

No, I'll tell you what it does NOT say. It does not say that the serpent was lifted up for the Egyptians, or for the Greeks, or for the Assyrians, or for the Babylonians; The serpent was lifted up for Israel.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Arminian Why are people so afraid of the word whosoever.?

 

[David Michael Harris]

Off to watch a star trek movie. Back tomorrow.

Actually it's an old Kirk Douglas film tonight, The Vikings. Should be a laugh, I like old films. Enough study for today. Time to lighten up.

 

[OldRegular]

That's why I refuse to play Regular's game anymore.

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

 

[AresMan]

That stinks of Calvinism. The Bible quite clearly says WHOSOEVER.

The word whosoever itself does mean "everyone has the ability." Whosoever simple means "the ones who..." Whosoever believeth translates the Greek phrase pas ho pisteuwn, which literally is "all the ones believing." Your assumption that whosoever means "anyone can..." rather than simply "everyone that..." is purely reading into both the English and the Greek text.

It does not say, For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that the Elect may believe and so be saved.

No, it does not. It does not have to say that.

If the Apostle John was a Calvinist he would have used the word Elect and not Whosoever.

First, the Apostle John did not say whosoever; he said pas ho pisteuwn. He said that the reason of the giving of the Son was so that all the ones believing into him should have salvation.

Classic example of jumping time again.

Classic example of tradition, assumption, emotion, and wishful thinking over strict reading of the text.