women teachers

I guess this woman doing the baptizing would have to do so silently.

You're theologically all over the place, aren't you?

 

The last first. Yes men who choose to violate God's order for the church and use her for their teacher are in rebellion. Is she a false teacher? Anyone who takes any office, or position of authority when they are not permitted to that office or authority are operating out of their own willful rebellion and are false to the office and the calling. So yes she would be a false teacher since her messages would not be Spirit generated. While she denies that she teaches men she openly advertises for men to attend her teachings. Here is one example;
advertisement in the Houston Chronicle -- an advertisement for a September 2001 Precept Ministries seminar:

Study with Kay Arthur in Houston, Texas. 'A Holy God … A Holy People.' Life Changing! Invite your pastor, Sunday School teachers, youth workers, men's and women's ministry leaders."
​

When there are men in the ministry who are godly men and teach the word of God one would have to ask why would anyone seek to set under someone who is in rebellion against the word of God? The answer is that they also are in rebellion.
Several years ago one of the Baptist schools here in Texas hired a Mormon to teach some class'. They knew he was a Mormon, but they were satisfied as long as he taught in the area they wanted. keep in mind that not all that Mormons teach is wrong, but it is always wrong for them to teach the things of God. However for me to set under this man would have been rebellion because I know he is a false teacher. he is false because he is not of the Lord. The fact that he spout some accurate doctrine does not mean I am to associate myself under his teaching. The principle is the same when a woman takes the position to teach men.

 

[SIZE=+0]No that is incorrect. I did not write the bible. It is not what I say, but what the Lord says and I have simply stated what scripture says. When the church comes together whether formal or informal a woman is not permitted to teach or exercise authority over a man.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]In daily witnessing or even preaching where the church is not gathered she has every right and responsibility to carry out the great commission. She can go on missions to the lost or be in her own country, door to door or street preaching and witnessing but once she has given God's message to the lost and they become saved she is forbidden to teach or exercise authority over a man. While she is giving the salvation message she can answer any question that may arise to convince the person of their need and the solution but her teaching duties ends at the salvation of the individual if it is a man. She can then point him to a male or just the bible but she is not to be his teacher. This is not to suggest that if a man came to her she could not answer his question. She simply cannot be in any position where she is a teacher where men are present. She can teach women in the church or out until the cows come home if she is so called, but not men.[/SIZE]
There is only one reason why anyone seeks to violate the word of God when they have more then enough on their plate that is God given and that is rebellion.

 

I get concerned about one thing above.

I think it's a pity to too quickly label a wife as a "rebellious wife". How sad. I've seen women divorce their husbands to pursue drinking and dancing. That's rebellious. That's sad and it's true they are rebellious. I'm so thankful my wife and I have a relationship of love and obedience to God mutually. But I'm concerned about a view that too quickly concludes there is rebellion. That can be an over-reaction, which is not good.

I once knew an elder in a church who used to go around saying this or that woman in the church was rebellious when they would disagree with him. He was a domineering sort of person. He used to be a bully in grade school and still needed more grace to overcome his character weaknesses. I ended up leaving that church and it was a good thing for my own growth. His rough edges were rubbing off on everyone.

It's just a yellow flag to be on the watch for.



On the second part of the quote above, ...

Why God commanded men to be responsible and accountable to lead is because they were created first, or because Eve took the fruit first, but why that would cause the need for them to lead I don't know since both Adam and Eve ultimately took the fruit. I just don't know the root cause of why God said it. My speculations are probably vain. But it seems we need to humbly obey it.

There have been so many abuses of the roles of authority over many years that our culture has reacted in the last several decades.

There should be a way to follow God's plan without going too far in one direction and forgetting to be humble. It's a real danger for men to lose site of mutual respect and humility and we need our wives to tell us objectively when we lose that humility and become prideful.

Finding that balance of love and harmony and respect with men and women is a good objective to pursue. It's like pursuing performing a beautiful symphony. And it seems that God is delighted when the music is harmonious.

Women view things different that men are clueless about and vice versa, until the other helps them understand. This forces a need for communication.

There are so many parallels between marriage and male/female relationships and our relationship with the Lord it's incredible and beautiful.

Some times my relationship with my wife really shows forth the beauty of the Lord. Other times when we get in a big disagreement and hurt each others feelings, it isn't so beautiful, but God is faithful to forgive, as we confess and forgive each other.

It seems like discussions on gender needs to consider some of these points above, and probably more, to see a vision for God's design.

Sorry, I got off track and shared personal understandings again, rather than Bible verses. So take it for whatever it's worth.

 

I have taken several Kay Arthur classes that were taught by women at local churches. Some were also taught at a local retreat facility. The women teachers attended a teacher preparation program conducted by Kay Arthur. The teachers were knowledgeable, articulate, and well prepared to teach the classes. I learned a great deal from these classes and the women who taught these classes.

...Bob

 

REBEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:smilewinkgrin:

 

Thank you for sharing. However I will say that calling rebellion something other then rebellion helps no one. I am not biblically qualified to hold the office of deacon or pastor/elder. I have been in churches that try and put my name on the list to be ordained even though they know my past circumstances. I quickly move to have them remove my name. if I would decide to go ahead it would be rebellion, plain and simple. I suppose I could just excuse it with something like this;
well there just wasn't anyone else, or no one knows my heart and i feel called of the Lord, or the pastor and other leaders are over me and they say it is all right, or what ever other excuse i might come up with to justify my rebellion. However God is not moved by my excuses and rebellion.
it is no different when a woman decides to go against the word of God and teach men. This is not our church. The Lord said He would build it and frankly I do not want to get in His way. He set the standards, and we are to obey. While there may be those ministries that violate the principles of God and seem for the moment to be doing all right we need to remember that God will not be mocked and He will cause those who have not the love of the truth to believe the lie.
You mentioned a deacon in the church you attended as being out of line in his handling those who disagree with him. That is too bad. The problem was not just with him but with a disobedient church that put him in that position. If they had followed the prescribed conditions for a deacon then they would not have gotten what they got. The same with women teaching men. You get God's judgment not His blessing when you rebell.
So with all this if someone is rebellious they need to be told. No not always in public but the rebellion needs to be pointed out and if they accept you win a brother or sister.

 

isn't it interesting the low value some hold God's word even to the point bragging about how we get away with disobedience. My guess is that Uzza would have done the same if God had not struck him dead. The thing is that Uzza was an example of how God feels about our way in doing things against His way even if ours seem good and holy to us or the world. The problem here is that when we think we have a better way then the Lord we forget that the day of judgment has not passed. Certainly the passage that says God makes those who have not the love of the truth, He will make then believe the lie is being witnessed even today, but the consequences will be experienced at the judgment.

 

Woman or not, I've listened to Kay Arthur and can't recommend her to anybody.

 

I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. (1 Cor. 4:3-5; NIV 1984)​

...Bob​

 

Why does that comment not surprise me?



...Bob

 

When anyone decides to rebel against the Lord's word their hearts are exposed for all to see. They are already judged and waiting for the results to take effect.

 

. . . do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. (1 Cor. 3:1-3; NIV 1984)​

...Bob

 

Good ol' Benny is at again.