Does Calvinism require a higher spiritual intellect, spirituality, and...

[preacher4truth]

How did anyone ever pick up Calvin in all of this. My mother-in-law who is Dutch Reformed never ever mentions Calvin but states that they are Reformed.

Wow, I don't know, perhaps the title of the thread? :wavey:

I mean, how could I have ever done this? :thumbsup:

Your mom in law may "never mention" it, but I highly doubt she has never mentioned it in her life, and if she is in church, that she's never heard of it.

 

[Jarthur001]

No, to "get it" you simply have to be brainwahed.

This reminds me of the drunk that falls into limburger cheese.
Everywhere he went, his whole world smelt bad, not knowing it was he.


On the other hand....God did indeed wash me clean, and gave me a new heart. So...maybe you are right. Brainwashed by God.

 

[preacher4truth]

This reminds me of the drunk that falls into limburger cheese.
Everywhere he went, his whole world smelt bad, not knowing it was he.


On the other hand....God did indeed wash me clean, and gave me a new heart. So...maybe you are right. Brainwashed by God.

Yeah. Weren't we given an imperative to renew our minds?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How was I brainwashed when I read it in Scripture, did not hear anything on the outside about this doctrine yet saw it there in Scripture and just believed it? It wasn't until a few years later that I learned that there was a term for it and that there was controversy over it. So how is that brainwashed?

Ann, both my wife & my brother tell me the same thing. In fact my brother was an IBF Pastor. His stories prove that the other side were biased against Reformed Theology long before he even studied it in greater detail. He went to a regional meeting of Pastors & at lunch, sat down with a coupla of Reformed pastors & struck up a conversation with them in a "Just like this/passing the time of day fashion" & later was yelled at for it by his then Lead Pastor....the guy told him that by even talking to them that my brother & the church he was pastoring in would NOT be blessed by God. Later on that gave my brother more curiosity about Reformed Theology leading to his intensified study of it. So I say, come on throw your hate at me for being Reformed. The more I study it, the more I see God's hand in it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Wow, I don't know, perhaps the title of the thread? :wavey:

I mean, how could I have ever done this? :thumbsup:

Your mom in law may "never mention" it, but I highly doubt she has never mentioned it in her life, and if she is in church, that she's never heard of it.

See my point is its not all about Calvin. We believe we take instruction from Paul who got it from the HS. I feel reformed is a n inclusive term but we are really Christians.

Besides Calvinist is a term that causes friction, so why use it?

 

[Jarthur001]

How did anyone ever pick up Calvin in all of this. My mother-in-law who is Dutch Reformed never ever mentions Calvin but states that they are Reformed.

Some are not able to understand that the man, is not the same as the doctrines that were around before he taught them. They act as if they believe that Calvinist are fools that read John Calvin every night and believe every word he says, and have never looked to Scripture to see if he is right.

 

[preacher4truth]

See my point is its not all about Calvin. We believe we take instruction from Paul who got it from the HS. I feel reformed is a n inclusive term but we are really Christians.

Besides Calvinist is a term that causes friction, so why use it?

Oh, so now we've moved from "how did Calvin come into this" (which is the OP) to "it's not all about Calvin."

It's for the sake of having something to argue about. I see.

This truth came way prior to Paul.

Your last statment is a given.

Again, it's because of the OP. :wavey:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yeah. Weren't we given an imperative to renew our minds?

YES! & that has been the blessing of it all!!!

Praise God from whom all blessings flow.:thumbsup:

 

[Aaron]

...theology?

Luke2427 said in this post:



The quote is somewhat rediculous. It's essence is "If you don't believe this or that I'm far more intellectual, spiritual, and theologically mature. An Arminian could say the same:



I'm wondering if the Calvinists here believe Luke's quote.

The Gnostics believed they had special knowledge and maturity, too.

Calvinism is Christianity. One needs no special knowledge. One needs the Holy Spirit who is freely given to all who ask of the Father.

 

[Tom Butler]

Originally Posted by Tom Butler
I surely hope that embracing Calvinism (or DoG) doesn't require a superior intellect, or I'd be outa luck.

That's not true Brother Tom. It is very humble of you, but not accurate.

It DOES require an above average theological acumen which you OBVIOUSLY possess based on your posts.

A GOOD Arminian requires an intellect that is superior to the average theological intellect.

I went to Jackson yesterday and attended a debate between James White and the director of philosophy at Wesley College in Jackson.

The director's name escapes me for the moment, but he was thoroughly Arminian and pretty sharp.

Even Arminianism, in order to get a decent handle on it, requires an above average theological acumen.

I consider Calvinism to be much deeper and more accurate. Therefore, imo, it requires a certain amount of spiritual maturity and theological intellect to really get.

You can believe it by being raised a Calvinist. You can believe it by receiving the truth of it later in life. But to really get it- that requires someone who is significantly sharper than the average church goer in this culture.

I think I have average intellect, but compared to James White, and even some Arminian scholars, I'm out of their league.

Even on this board, I am in awe of several folks of all soteriological stripes, whose intellectual gifts are obvious--and intimidating to me.

I understand that the Doctrines of Grace are deep. But getting a handle on them requires study. Even we average guys can understand the concepts if we stick with it, and utilitize the intellectual gifts of some great teachers.

Further, I think there is a spiritual component involving illumination by the Holy Spirit, that goes beyond intellect.

I just love those "aha" moments.

 

[Amy.G]

You can believe it by being raised a Calvinist. You can believe it by receiving the truth of it later in life. But to really get it- that requires someone who is significantly sharper than the average church goer in this culture.

What an ego.


Thank the Lord Jesus that the gospel doesn't require us to be significantly sharper than the average person. He made it simple so that the simple can understand and be saved!

 

[quantumfaith]

What an ego.


Thank the Lord Jesus that the gospel doesn't require us to be significantly sharper than the average person. He made it simple so that the simple can understand and be saved!

I am with you Amy, the only reason one might be required to "smarter than the average bear" is use all the acceptable language and lingo which serve as the accoutrements of any man created system.

 

[BobinKy]

 

[Aaron]

...theology?

Luke2427 said in this post:



The quote is somewhat rediculous. It's essence is "If you don't believe this or that I'm far more intellectual, spiritual, and theologically mature. An Arminian could say the same:



I'm wondering if the Calvinists here believe Luke's quote.

The Gnostics believed they had special knowledge and maturity, too.

Calvinism is the beginning of knowledge, however, and Calvinists attain more and better knowledge than those who reject it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yea, your right Tom & there is aha moments that collaborates that after grace you do ask God to make you one of his. I myself fought it, wanted nothing to do with it & was mad at God. But for Grace was I saved & thats when I wanted to know more, could no longer do the things I did in my sinnful state so I really reversed myself....I asked for forgiveness & for Him to be my Lord & Savior. Even now, I ask him daily to make me a better man, father & husband. That is surely grace. Now then, why would I not want to know more? Indoctrination, hardly. Grace alone, Faith alone & finally Christ alone.

Gee, look at all the things He did for us on the cross. He didnt need my help to achieve those things, rather He did them. All I can do is look up & be grateful, honor & worship him as Lord & Savior

 

[Amy.G]

Calvinism is the beginning of knowledge, however, and Calvinists attain more and better knowledge than those who reject it.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.




Seems like Calvinists need to do more Bible reading.

 

[quantumfaith]

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.




:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[MB]

Calvinism is the beginning of knowledge, however, and Calvinists attain more and better knowledge than those who reject it.

That's strange. The Bible says;
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
MB

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am with you Amy, the only reason one might be required to "smarter than the average bear" is use all the acceptable language and lingo which serve as the accoutrements of any man created system.

Yes & you are to love your enemy's & do good to them that revile you.

I dont believe for a minute that Luke was saying that those who study Reformed theology were truly any smarter than anyone else....I believe he miscommunicated . If he did & meant it then I for one forgive him & ask that he apologize. No one in here should be touting intellectual superiority, thats Pharisaical & Christ warned us about it.

Rather we should be embracing the fact that we are all Christians & our efforts should be employed in bringing the lost to Christ, not fighting each other.

 

[webdog]

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.




Seems like Calvinists need to do more Bible reading.

Yes, but he said Calvinism IS christianity...so I guess you can just substitute anything pertaining to God in the Bible and insert "calvinism" and it's still truth.

At least Aaron admits what many don't...that if you are not a calvinist, you are not a christian.