What about the IFB Baptist group?

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Now, if one can show me the IFB church that is different, I'm all over that. Haven't seen many, however.

Come and see us. We'd love to have you.

 

[glfredrick]

Come and see us. We'd love to have you.

I don't doubt it... Your invitation alone sets you apart from those who would call me Satan, a son of the Pope, a sinner, etc... :laugh:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't doubt it... Your invitation alone sets you apart from those who would call me Satan, a son of the Pope, a sinner, etc... :laugh:

Our church is full of folks who battle sin, including the pastor.

 

[DHK]

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

Here is a classical example -- their "hit list"

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm

This is not a classic example. It is the equivalent of getting all of your apologetic sources from "Chick Publications." Those knowledgeable about this website know right away what kind of site it is, and how it is quoted often for their information, and often their misinformation. And if you are using this site as an example of a typical IFB site you are doing the same thing--using the site as an example to show how misinformed you are about the IFB movement.

 

[TCassidy]

Tom...

First, wherever have I spoken out against the CRITICAL items that you list above?

What I posted is the very definition of IFB which you chose to attack. You cannot attack IFBs without attacking what we believe and what we are. Independent. Fundamental. Baptist.

Second, have I not mentioned "AUTONOMOUS" on more than one occasion?

Yes, you did, but still managed to paint all IFBs with the same broad brush.

Third, I posted a link PRODUCED BY IFB and made public by IFB. They can stand or fall based on their content -- and the CONTENT on that site and many others that I have looked up confirms what I said in my original post.

You posted ONE link produced by ONE IFB church, possibly with the cooperation of others and inferred, incorrectly, they are representative of virtually all IFBs. That is untrue. They represent the radical fringe, not the core of IFBs.

Fourth, there is a HUGE difference between the FUNDAMENTALS (which I hold!) and FUNDAMENTALIST (or "istic"). I would presume that you know the difference. But if you do not, I would suggest some homework.

I have been an Independent Fundamental Baptist pastor for 37 years. I attended an Independent Fundamental Baptist Seminary. I have pastored nothing but Independent Fundamental Baptist churches in that time and have been pastor of our present Independent Fundamental Baptist Church for over 25 years. I taught at an Independent Fundamental Baptist College, and an Independent Fundamental Baptist Seminary for well over 25 years.

To attempt to create a dichotomy between the fundamentals and fundamentalism is simple sophistry.

Fifth, I ALSO said, that if someone can show me an IFB that is otherwise, I'll gladly (GLADLY!) accept that.

The vast majority of IFBs are otherwise as Dr. Bob clearly laid out for you, but you did not accept it but continued to slander all IFBs on the basis of your lack of experience and discernment.

So, why are your panties all twisted?

I don't wear panties, and my undergarments are not twisted. But I will defend good and Godly men and churches from the bitter slander spewed forth by those who condemn all on the basis of a vast minority of toxic men and churches.

I'm not the bitter one. But I've sure ate my share of bitter fruits from IFB people over the years.

Yes, you are bitter. You blame all IFBs for the abuses of a few, and by so doing you slander the vast majority who love the Lord and love the Lord's people.

And, where ["French" edited] did you arrive at the conclusion that I would, in any way, support "your church to be lorded over by popes, cardinals, archbishops, etc., so be it..." Saying something like that can only come from the pit of hell...

You are the one who condemned IFBs. The "I" in IFB stands for "Independent" as in "opposed to a church being lorded over by popes, cardinals, archbishops, etc." If you are going to condemn all IFBs you condemn Independence, Fundamentalism, and Baptists. QED

I suggest you take your own advice and "do a little homework." If you will get off the internet and get out in the real world for a while you will find there are many IFB men and churches who are the opposite of what you characterize us to be.

 

[robt.k.fall]

130 years old and counting

This year Hamilton Square Baptist Church of San Francisco celebrates her 130th birthday. She's been independent and Fundemental (the founding document actually say "we hold to the positions held by the Regular Baptists)) since 1881. Y'all are invited out for the celebration.

www.hamiltonsquare.net

The home page has a link to Pastor Innes' sermons on Sermon Audio.

http://www.hamiltonsquare.net/sermonaudio.htm

 

[TCassidy]

This year Hamilton Square Baptist Church of San Francisco celebrates her 130th birthday. She's been independent and Fundemental (the founding document actually say "we hold to the positions held by the Regular Baptists)) since 1881. Y'all are invited out for the celebration.

www.hamiltonsquare.net

The home page has a link to Pastor Innes' sermons on Sermon Audio.

http://www.hamiltonsquare.net/sermonaudio.htm

Excellent example of a balanced, loving IFB church. Even back in the days of "The Blueprint" and the Winegar brothers, it was the more moderate of the two who pastored Hamilton Square.

 

[glfredrick]

This is not a classic example. It is the equivalent of getting all of your apologetic sources from "Chick Publications." Those knowledgeable about this website know right away what kind of site it is, and how it is quoted often for their information, and often their misinformation. And if you are using this site as an example of a typical IFB site you are doing the same thing--using the site as an example to show how misinformed you are about the IFB movement.

Okay, I'll publish 20 other web sites if you don't like that one...

 

[glfredrick]

Excellent example of a balanced, loving IFB church. Even back in the days of "The Blueprint" and the Winegar brothers, it was the more moderate of the two who pastored Hamilton Square.

Not saying that they do not exist.

 

[DHK]

Okay, I'll publish 20 other web sites if you don't like that one...

When it comes to info on IFB churches I find your research wanting. Even the other link had flaws in it. The most popular sites are not examples of the most typical sites. In other words, CHICK sites may be popular, but they are not typical of most Baptists.

Here is a site where you can find a reasonable array of IFB churches across the nation:

http://baptistinfo.com/directory.shtml

 

[glfredrick]

It seems that I have touched a raw nerve.

Do the IFB persons on this site disavow some of their brothers who are prone to excess? Or, do you support them in their efforts?

Do you turn to those pages to find points for debates, or do you disavow them in the heat of an argument also?

Just wondering, for I've seen some of that crud surface here on more than one occasion (in fact, just about every occasion!).

Again, I have NOTHING against an IFB that is in line with God's Word, and where the pastor and people are doing what Christ told us to do.

I have the entire weight of the Scriptures against those who hate everyone and who take their separation as their primary goal. That is not of God.

If you and your IFB church is in the first camp, God bless, and good for you. If, on the other hand, you and your church are preaching against everyone else and their churches, then you are the one's I am speaking about, and rightfully so.

 

[matt wade]

Okay, I'll publish 20 other web sites if you don't like that one...

I can find 20 web sites that show that "community churches" support gay pastors. By your line of reasoning, your Sojourn Community Church supports gay pastors.

 

[DHK]

It seems that I have touched a raw nerve.

Do the IFB persons on this site disavow some of their brothers who are prone to excess? Or, do you support them in their efforts?

This is a debate forum, not a church. It is "the crud" that surfaces along with all the emotion that you are displaying in a debate forum where we all can hide behind our computers anonymously and hash out whatever we want without being held accountable for it. There are a few of us like Dr. Cassidy, that are well known. Most others are anonymous.

Do you turn to those pages to find points for debates, or do you disavow them in the heat of an argument also?

What pages? Debate can be good. Iron sharpeneth iron.

Just wondering, for I've seen some of that crud surface here on more than one occasion (in fact, just about every occasion!).

Perhaps you should define "crud". BTW, if you are looking for a perfect church, you will never find one. If you do, don't join it. It won't be perfect any longer.

Again, I have NOTHING against an IFB that is in line with God's Word, and where the pastor and people are doing what Christ told us to do.

That is the way most of us are. I am sorry if you had a bad experience. Don't wipe us all with a broad brush. I know of Roman Catholic who turned to the RCC because she grew up in Baptist Church with a poor testimony. She had a bad experience in Baptist Church. Fortunately not all IFB churches are like that.

I have the entire weight of the Scriptures against those who hate everyone and who take their separation as their primary goal. That is not of God.

I have the entire weight of Scripture for me to use against folks like you who broadbrush an entire camp of sincere Bible-believing brethren like that. There are six things that God hates, and seven that are an abomination to him. The seventh is "he that sows discord among the brethren."

If you and your IFB church is in the first camp, God bless, and good for you. If, on the other hand, you and your church are preaching against everyone else and their churches, then you are the one's I am speaking about, and rightfully so.

As one poster posted about some Community churches having gay pastors, would you preach "against" that sin. Or does that fall into your area of "preaching against everyone else and their churches?"

 

[Jerome]

Now, now, I'm sure Fred knows what he is talking about.
After all, hasn't he has told us that he has studied "under some of the brightest lights in the history of God's church" at the Seminary whose scholarship is "second to none in history"?

 

[glfredrick]

You guys keep making my points...

Thanks, I guess. :wavey:

 

[michael-acts17:11]

I am yet another recovering IFB with many recovering friends. Several of my family members are still held by the Pharisaic deception. The following is a more accurate portrayal of the BAPTIST anagram as it relates to IFB's in the South:


1 B: Baptist authority
2 A: Authority of the church in all things
3 P: Priesthood of the pastor
4 T: Three ordinances (Baptism, The Lord's Supper & Church Attendance)
5 I: Individual Soul Submission to the church
6 S: Saved Church Membership (True, but they misunderstand the Biblical definition)
7 T: Three Offices (Pastor, pastor's wife & Deacon)
8 S: Separation of church and expository teaching

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Isn't in interesting that the vitriol can spew from the keyboards of both sides of this discussion?

Can that really be of God?

 

[Salty]

I am yet another recovering IFB with many recovering friends. Several of my family members are still held by the Pharisaic deception. The following is a more accurate portrayal of the BAPTIST anagram as it relates to IFB's in the South:

Do you know who came up with the orginal anagram? Click here for the answer

and click here to vote in the poll

 

[Salty]

Of course as a side note "Real" IBF'ers do not consider the GARBC, CBA, ect to be Independent - fundamental - maybe (of course they are on shaky ground now) but definitely not independent - according to the "Real" IBF'ers

 

[tinytim]

Matt, I've had several run ins with IFB people. Every one unpleasant. I got involved with a local "tent meeting" that came to the town where I planted a church. They called me out in public in that meeting (that I helped to host, falsely thinking that they would actually preach the gospel...) because we used guitars in our worship service. I see them against EVERYONE who is not them. I see them lifting up people like Jack Hyles as if he is the Incarnation. I see them distorting known church history, known theological positions, and known men of God like Spurgeon. They (largely) preach a gospel of hate, which is not good news at all, but a perversion of the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not I who is doing the "beating" but the IFB.

And, again, as above, if you can show me otherwise, I'll accept that. Just haven't seen many who are actually different and who recognize others for being brothers and sisters in the Lord. Perhaps you are one who is different. I pray so...

This has been my experience also, with a very few exceptions!!!!...
I praise God that He led me out of the darkness of IFB!