Total Depravity = Hardening?

[quantumfaith]

Quantum, nobodies telling you that your a heretical believer though.Right.

The next implication is that one isnt Christian....sorry, actually that was the first. "Since we dont see how your belief system is biblical your more like a Mormon.... see the hateful pretzel logic.....next implication, "since we don't see you as biblical (Like us) you cant have salvation (like us) & so you must be one of those Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses...... but your not Christian (like us)".

Its a sad & detestable thing.

Well, to be honest EWF, I think it has been implied on many occasions. I hold back sometimes due to our friendship and respect and the fact I often just do not feel this "argument" over theology is always "worth" the friction it produces.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, to be honest EWF, I think it has been implied on many occasions. I hold back sometimes due to our friendship and respect and the fact I often just do not feel this "argument" over theology is always "worth" the friction it produces.

Quantum my friend, to be honest, when I hear that type of vitriol, I see my family who are good people & it upsets me that someone would even think of calling them "Not Christian".... its both insidious & detestable. I also see a family going back before reformation but being Christian & it just burns me up. These are the true Christian believers & to have some miscreant tell me that they aren't makes me want to strangle someone.

Ahhh, flip um, Im just going out & having my weekly beer. Have a good w/e.

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum my friend, to be honest, when I hear that type of vitriol, I see my family who are good people & it upsets me that someone would even think of calling them "Not Christian".... its both insidious & detestable. I also see a family going back before reformation but being Christian & it just burns me up. These are the true Christian believers & to have some miscreant tell me that they aren't makes me want to strangle someone.

Ahhh, flip um, Im just going out & having my weekly beer. Have a good w/e.

Enjoy your weekend, and your adult beverage. I will most certainly have one tonight as well.

 

[Iconoclast]

MB,


Are you saying that the Roman church had bible truth? The reformers were in error?
Is that your position? What do you believe? Are you a Roman catholic?

You said this;

Just what or who do you think the reformers are? They turned on the Catholic faith and started the reformation of it.

I can see you have not understood the teaching of the reformers at all, but what are you saying? What do you believe?

 

[Robert Snow]

So in other words your saying that Calvinists are not biblical? Is that what your saying? dont hold back Robert, tell me your thoughts & feelings. Your equating us to Heretics.....please tell me more.

No, Calvinists are not heretics, any more than non-Calvinists are. The parallel I was drawing was that because something has been around a long time does not make it correct.

My conclusion was that these listed cults have been around for many years, yet we all recognize they are wrong in what they believe. Since Calvinism has been around for hundreds of years does not make it correct either.

I never said that Calvinistic beliefs have anything to do with what these cults believe.

 

[jbh28]

No, Calvinists are not heretics, any more than non-Calvinists are. The parallel I was drawing was that because something has been around a long time does not make it correct.

My conclusion was that these listed cults have been around for many years, yet we all recognize they are wrong in what they believe. Since Calvinism has been around for hundreds of years does not make it correct either.

I never said that Calvinistic beliefs have anything to do with what these cults believe.

Thanks for clearing that up. :thumbsup:

 

[jbh28]

Are you correcting your self here because you said earlier;

No, made the same mistake that you did. Meant respond positively to God...

I disagree entirely man doesn't have the power of the Spirit before Salvation. Not to mention this is only your explanation and this is not found in scripture no matter how you interpret it.

Why don't you share with us the Scriptures teaching that man can have the spirit in him before he is saved.

This only proves man to be a sinfull creature. If man were dead in reality it would be to late there are no second chances. The term dead here means to be considered dead by God.

spiritually dead, not physically dead.

Or separated from God because of the man's rebellion. It is not a literal dead spirit that is being spoken of. Nor can it be because man is unable to live with out his spirit. His spirit may be evil but very much alive.

again, spiritually dead

Men can and do seek God

Really, that's not what the Bible teaches

however they will not find God with out His help. That help is the gospel convincing the man he needs God once convinced he is convicted and it is the Holy Spirit that does it all. He drives man toward submission though man sometimes will not submit. Submission is not a work it's just giving up the fight against God.

True

Which is a freewill decision.

If you mean that man comes to Christ willingly, then yes.

Just like Jonah's decision was to go to Ninevah. He could have just stayed in the belly of the fish.
MB

And who would argue against that?

As far as being spiritually dead, let me give you a good picture of this from Ezekiel.

The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones. And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry. And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord GOD, you know.” Then he said to me, “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the LORD.”
(Ezekiel 37:1-6 ESV)