what happens To A True Christian Who Willfully Rejects Christ/UNbelief?

[Amy.G]

Was asking IF a person decides willfully to "ship wreak" their Faith...
Something happened. lost of spouse, kids died early in life etc

They were so hurt, decided to stop serving the Lord. and went back to just living their lives w/o God

NOT saying went into gross sinning, just decided to act as if God was no longer there, no more praying/reading Bible etc...

Just asking here...

Would God just 'let them go?"
Would He judge their actions, and cause bad things to come their way to "wake them up?"
IF severe enough, would he bring early death on them to "save their soul?"

I don't know but this is exactly the story of my husband. He stopped going to church 2 years ago, stopped reading his bible, then said he wasn't sure if the bible was God's word or man's, then last month after 33 years of marriage, he left me. I really don't know how God will deal with him.
But I have friends who have know people who have done the same things and God took their lives early.

 

[freeatlast]

Was asking IF a person decides willfully to "ship wreak" their Faith...
Something happened. lost of spouse, kids died early in life etc

They were so hurt, decided to stop serving the Lord. and went back to just living their lives w/o God

NOT saying went into gross sinning, just decided to act as if God was no longer there, no more praying/reading Bible etc...

Just asking here...

Would God just 'let them go?"
Would He judge their actions, and cause bad things to come their way to "wake them up?"
IF severe enough, would he bring early death on them to "save their soul?"

The problem is that you are suggesting this is possible when it is not. Scripture is clear. if a person is not following the Lord they are not His. If you read Romans 8:14 you can see this;
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The passage is present tense continual action. There is no time a Christian is not being lead and to be lead one has to be following. Yes you will hear myriads of testimonies of those who claim to have gotten saved and they feel away only to re-dedicate themselves but those testimonies are ALL false.

If we would just believe the bible we would see these things as what they are. Jesus said this;
Matt 7:13,14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In John we can clearly see that those who come stay no matter what comes against them;
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

If that is not enough John says this;
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

No one ever got saved and left the Lord in any fashion whether it be by stopping following him or turning to the practice of sin.

So the scenario you gave is not possible for a true believer and that makes any answer other then what scripture gives in these verses above vain.

Only those who abide are the saved ones. That does not mean in and out and in and out. It means in and we stay in and if we leave we are not the saved.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[psalms109:31]

Hope through the word of God

James 5:
The Prayer of Faith
13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.


1 John 5:
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.


Philippians 4:
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


1 Timothy 2
1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[revmwc]

The problem is that you are suggesting this is possible when it is not. Scripture is clear. if a person is not following the Lord they are not His. If you read Romans 8:14 you can see this;
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Was that person lead of the Spirit and trust Christ? Live for Him have evidence that God was real? If you say yes and then they departed, God is still holding them in His hand and the indwelling Spirit is in them. Being lead by the Spirit to salvation is what this verse says. We are speaking of that type person they were lead and answered the call. Of course only God knows if they truly accepted Christ or not.
The passage is present tense continual action. There is no time a Christian is not being lead and to be lead one has to be following. Yes you will hear myriads of testimonies of those who claim to have gotten saved and they feel away only to re-dedicate themselves but those testimonies are ALL false. Then this part of scripture must be rejected if you say they can't. Verse 17 speaks of the believer defiling the temple of God, how do we defile it we continue in sin. That person receives wood hay and stubble but is still saved.

1st Corinthians 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.



If we would just believe the bible we would see these things as what they are. Jesus said this;
Matt 7:13,14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
The person who receives Christ did enter this way, they walked in it and had evidence of a real faith.
In John we can clearly see that those who come stay no matter what comes against them;
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John 1: 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Define the we, is John not talking to believers.

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. When the Bleiever confesses sin it is forgiven but until you confess you are walking in darkness.

10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


If that is not enough John says this;
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.
So you never sin? But yet John has said we do sin. The old sin nature is no longer to be our master.
No one ever got saved and left the Lord in any fashion whether it be by stopping following him or turning to the practice of sin.
Really so when David continued in sin he was no longer saved, what about Solomon? Lot comes to mind, he vexxed his righteous soul daily. How about Jonah he refused to go where God sent him and once there he waited to see God destroy the people.
So the scenario you gave is not possible for a true believer and that makes any answer other then what scripture gives in these verses above vain.
But it is possible we see it through out scripture.

Only those who abide are the saved ones. That does not mean in and out and in and out. It means in and we stay in and if we leave we are not the saved.

No there are many cases throughout scripture of those who trusted Christ and turned away.
1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Sounds like they had turned from serving to other doctrines, but were still saved.
Too many passages to say that a believer can't walk away and not serve. Too many example from New and Old Testament scripture.
I believe there will be many folks in heaven we would never believe would be there and many in hell that we thought were saved and aren't. Scripture is very clear on this.

 

[JesusFan]

The problem is that you are suggesting this is possible when it is not. Scripture is clear. if a person is not following the Lord they are not His. If you read Romans 8:14 you can see this;
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The passage is present tense continual action. There is no time a Christian is not being lead and to be lead one has to be following. Yes you will hear myriads of testimonies of those who claim to have gotten saved and they feel away only to re-dedicate themselves but those testimonies are ALL false.

If we would just believe the bible we would see these things as what they are. Jesus said this;
Matt 7:13,14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In John we can clearly see that those who come stay no matter what comes against them;
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

If that is not enough John says this;
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

No one ever got saved and left the Lord in any fashion whether it be by stopping following him or turning to the practice of sin.

So the scenario you gave is not possible for a true believer and that makes any answer other then what scripture gives in these verses above vain.

Only those who abide are the saved ones. That does not mean in and out and in and out. It means in and we stay in and if we leave we are not the saved.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Don't think that is it quite as "black and white" as all of that though...
Agree that a "true" Christian cannot forever "wallow in the muck and mire" as John does state that a VChristian nature is now turned towards loving/serving God, will not have a "habitual" sinful lifestyle BUT

John also states if we calim to now be sinless, truth not in us
Jesus WILL cleanse and forgive us of ALL our sins if we come unto Him with it...

Jesus told us in parable prodigal Son, that even a Christian can go 'wayward" into World, yet still beloved by Father and welcomed back
Peter himself fell in Flesh, denied the Lord, but also shows us God will forgive and will bring Him back

Think key here is that the true Christian CAN chose to "walk in ways of Flesh/World" but only for a season, as his new nature will keep drawing back to Lord...

just saying, one can make a short or a long "wilderness" journey back to God...

You really don't know ANY sincere Christians having a "crisi in their faith" enough to cause to stumble and act "unchristian" for a time?

 

[jbh28]

I don't know but this is exactly the story of my husband. He stopped going to church 2 years ago, stopped reading his bible, then said he wasn't sure if the bible was God's word or man's, then last month after 33 years of marriage, he left me. I really don't know how God will deal with him.
But I have friends who have know people who have done the same things and God took their lives early.

I'll pray for him.

 

[convicted1]

Assuming here is a "real" believer in Jesus, rgenerated by God...
Through whatever reasons, deides to 'walk away' from his faith
Goes to unbelief, or just stops moving forward in his walk with Christ

What will happen to that person here and in hereafter?

A real believer will not go back, IMO. The Proical son never went back to the "hog lot", or at least I haven't read where he did.

 

[Robert Snow]

All you achieve by this rhetoric is to make the Calvinist more resolute. Was that your intent?

I have no hidden agenda. I'm not concerned with winning the Calvinists over to my way of thinking. (See, if I really wanted to be insulting I would have said, winning the Calvinists over to the truth.)

I simply state what I believe the bible teaches and how, to me, Calvinism doesn't make sense, either logically or scripturally.

 

[convicted1]

I don't know but this is exactly the story of my husband. He stopped going to church 2 years ago, stopped reading his bible, then said he wasn't sure if the bible was God's word or man's, then last month after 33 years of marriage, he left me. I really don't know how God will deal with him.
But I have friends who have know people who have done the same things and God took their lives early.

Sissy, I will be engaged in prayer for you and your husband!! I love you!!!

 

[revmwc]

So rejecting Christ and blasphemy against the Spirit is the same thing? What evidence do you have of this?

Sorry it took so long I had to search through notes and scripture to get you an answer.

John 12:
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.


Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye

While this was directed at the Jewish leaders it applies to all mankind.

Hebrews 3:7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Rejection of Christ and the beckoning of the Holy Spirit lead to eternal damnation for the unbeliever.

 

[freeatlast]

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Sounds like they had turned from serving to other doctrines, but were still saved.
Too many passages to say that a believer can't walk away and not serve. Too many example from New and Old Testament scripture.
I believe there will be many folks in heaven we would never believe would be there and many in hell that we thought were saved and aren't. Scripture is very clear on this.

You are trying to pit unclear scripture against clear. I agree that many will be surprised and that is because they did not believe what is clear. They deny sound doctrine. The Rev passage is not about an individual turning from God. It is speaking to a church that turned from its first love and is in danger of being removed.
If scripture is not enough then try and use some logic. There is no reason to warn a saved person if they could stray since the saved cannot lose their salvation. If they would die they would simply get a promotion making any warning in vain. Again the Rev passage is not about a straying Christian, but a church that has left its first love and in danger of being removed.
What is meant by first love has had many speculations, but for sure it is not about them living in sin. 1John 3:9. Most likely it is about them becoming a social club more then a church spreading the gospel.

 

[Iconoclast]

These are scriptures that most Calvinists cannot deal with. They either formulate a new meaning or they ingore them completely.

How anyone ... can see Calvinism in the bible is beyond me. It is not there, but they keep trying to make it fit.

We see calvinism{biblical truth} because God has allowed us to. Pray about it Robertask for mercy and maybe God will allow you too see it also.

These verses listed are believed and uunderstood by calvinists just fine,as a matter of fact they are proof texts for calvinism.

As a matter of fact Robert....how about this
Look at romans 5:6 listed here....You know it is speaking of one of God's elect who are already justified ,don't you? All of the elect were ungodly,then Jesus saved them,justifying them.

Could you explain Romans 5:1-21 for us Robert.....so you cannot weasel out of the context.....You seem to have an aversion to scripture in your posts..so maybe you could enlighten us here.

Romans 5 is speaking to believers about those whom God has already saved. In stead of constantly whining about calvinism,which I am certain you can not even explain...offer some correction from scripture if you could. let's see who stays in context and who does not...explain all the verses in the list if you want.

 

[revmwc]

You are trying to pit unclear scripture against clear. I agree that many will be surprised and that is because they did not believe what is clear. They deny sound doctrine. The Rev passage is not about an individual turning from God. It is speaking to a church that turned from its first love and is in danger of being removed.
If scripture is not enough then try and use some logic. There is no reason to warn a saved person if they could stray since the saved cannot lose their salvation. If they would die they would simply get a promotion making any warning in vain. Again the Rev passage is not about a straying Christian, but a church that has left its first love and in danger of being removed.
What is meant by first love has had many speculations, but for sure it is not about them living in sin. 1John 3:9. Most likely it is about them becoming a social club more then a church spreading the gospel.

so there was a whole church full of believers who had turned from their first love.

Ephesians 4: 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20But ye have not so learned Christ;

21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27Neither give place to the devil.

28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Warning to believers not to fall back into a walk as in the past. Note to walk verse 22 "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;" The old man the Old Sinful man (i.e the old sin nature).
Ephesians 5: 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Be wise not unwise walk under the control of the Holy Spirit not under the influence of anything else.

1 timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

"Some being believers will depart from the faith. They will be seduced by spirits and doctrines of devils"

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


Very clearly Paul says believers can walk away from service and return to sin.

And of course 1 Corinthians 3 Paul says he must speak to them as carnal, out of God's will out of fellowship and following false doctrine.

 

[revmwc]

We see calvinism{biblical truth} because God has allowed us to. Pray about it Robertask for mercy and maybe God will allow you too see it also.

These verses listed are believed and uunderstood by calvinists just fine,as a matter of fact they are proof texts for calvinism.

As a matter of fact Robert....how about this
Look at romans 5:6 listed here....You know it is speaking of one of God's elect who are already justified ,don't you? All of the elect were ungodly,then Jesus saved them,justifying them.

Could you explain Romans 5:1-21 for us Robert.....so you cannot weasel out of the context.....You seem to have an aversion to scripture in your posts..so maybe you could enlighten us here.

Romans 5 is speaking to believers about those whom God has already saved. In stead of constantly whining about calvinism,which I am certain you can not even explain...offer some correction from scripture if you could. let's see who stays in context and who does not...explain all the verses in the list if you want.

Romans 5:6 seems very clear Christ died for the ungodly, that would be everyone in the human race. So atonement by that verse is unlimited. Verse 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Christ died for sinners, who are sinners all mankind again we see unlimited atonement.

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again justification is offered to all men verse 18, all mankind.
Many those who recive it will be made righteous why because they receive Christ by making a choice. It doesn't say God chose them to make that choice.

Very clear in Romans 5 God has not limited atonement for sins but made it available to all mankind.

 

[Robert Snow]

Pray about it Robert ask for mercy and maybe God will allow you too see it also...

It is this arrogant attitude that makes me despise Calvinism even more.

The idea that only the Calvinists have the mercy from God to allow them to see hidden truths that we uninformed Christians cannot see.

The truth is that the Calvinists has been duped by looking to false teachers like John Calvin instead of taking the bible at face value. Only by applying this false standard to verses of scripture can someone come up with this error in theology.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is this arrogant attitude that makes me despise Calvinism even more.

The idea that only the Calvinists have the mercy from God to allow them to see hidden truths that we uninformed Christians cannot see.

The truth is that the Calvinists has been duped by looking to false teachers like John Calvin instead of taking the bible at face value. Only by applying this false standard to verses of scripture can someone come up with this error in theology.

LOL, again I will repeat to the point of exhaustion that Calvinism in fact has been around for approx 2000 years which precluded Calvin. Archangel has told you as a Calvinistic Pastor that he doesnt even have a book on or by Calvin in his library. From my humble opinion you need to stop obsessing on Calvinists & look at them as your fellow Christian Believers & move on with your life cause you are not changing anyones opinion of theology. Perhaps if we all in this BB would spend more time worshiping our Master instead of looking for chinks in one another's theology, then we could understand one other better.:jesus:

 

[kyredneck]

LOL, again I will repeat to the point of exhaustion that Calvinism in fact has been around for approx 2000 years which precluded Calvin. Archangel has told you as a Calvinistic Pastor that he doesnt even have a book on or by Calvin in his library. From my humble opinion you need to stop obsessing on Calvinists & look at them as your fellow Christian Believers & move on with your life cause you are not changing anyones opinion of theology. Perhaps if we all in this BB would spend more time worshiping our Master instead of looking for chinks in one another's theology, then we could understand one other better.:jesus:

Good post. And yes, belief in an absolute sovereign God has been around long before a man named Calvin.

 

[revmwc]

LOL, again I will repeat to the point of exhaustion that Calvinism in fact has been around for approx 2000 years which precluded Calvin. Archangel has told you as a Calvinistic Pastor that he doesnt even have a book on or by Calvin in his library. From my humble opinion you need to stop obsessing on Calvinists & look at them as your fellow Christian Believers & move on with your life cause you are not changing anyones opinion of theology. Perhaps if we all in this BB would spend more time worshiping our Master instead of looking for chinks in one another's theology, then we could understand one other better.:jesus:

I think this is a good bible study tool and helps us all,

1. To understand why they believe what they believe.

2. They understand how we believe.

3. If we would all do as scripture tells us 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
If we test every spirit every form of doctrine taught seeking the Holy spirit to show us the truth and not be like Nicodemous and let our religion and teaching from pastors and professors that align with us then we would see the truth of Gods word and not twist it. Further John tells us that if they confess Christ is come in the flesh they are of God, so the main thing we should have as common ground is Jesus came in the flesh, died on the cross paying the penalty for sin and rose from the grave to show we have eternal life. Then there should be no name calling or labeling and we should be able to have debate on theology without all the name calling and labeling.
4. The problem with most of us is we are not willing to set aside the religious teaching we have had to really seek the truth of scripture, why becasue we might find out it is incorrect teaching. Most folks are set on specific teaching from different men who centuries after scripture was written developed theories, theology on what they saw. Luther, Knox, Calvin, Armenius and others all developed theological views. If we go back and really study the bible and study all the views but also study original menaings of words do a word study on our own we might find we are wanting on doctrine. Most folks are afraid to do that and just accept as truth what they were taught in their church and cemetary, I mean seminary. Test every spirit dig deep ask the Holy Spirit to show you truth but have an open mind and the Spirit will reveal it to you.

EWF not singaling you out just a good post to add to.

 

[MB]

We see calvinism{biblical truth} because God has allowed us to. Pray about it Robertask for mercy and maybe God will allow you too see it also.

These verses listed are believed and uunderstood by calvinists just fine,as a matter of fact they are proof texts for calvinism.

As a matter of fact Robert....how about this
Look at romans 5:6 listed here....You know it is speaking of one of God's elect who are already justified ,don't you? All of the elect were ungodly,then Jesus saved them,justifying them.

Could you explain Romans 5:1-21 for us Robert.....so you cannot weasel out of the context.....You seem to have an aversion to scripture in your posts..so maybe you could enlighten us here.

Romans 5 is speaking to believers about those whom God has already saved. In stead of constantly whining about calvinism,which I am certain you can not even explain...offer some correction from scripture if you could. let's see who stays in context and who does not...explain all the verses in the list if you want.

Nothing in Romans supports Calvinism when read in context and with out your own preconceived thoughts to dominate your interpretation. In fact the only thing that supports it, is your interpretation.
MB

 

[Iconoclast]

Nothing in Romans supports Calvinism when read in context and with out your own preconceived thoughts to dominate your interpretation. In fact the only thing that supports it, is your interpretation.
MB

:laugh::laugh: nothing at all,lol except the whole book of Romans.

good post mb...very insightful

maybe you can answer for Robert Snow...explain Romans 5
He obviously cannot.


As far as you go Robert;

It is this arrogant attitude that makes me despise Calvinism even more.

The idea that only the Calvinists have the mercy from God to allow them to see hidden truths that we uninformed Christians cannot see.

The truth is that the Calvinists has been duped by looking to false teachers like John Calvin instead of taking the bible at face value. Only by applying this false standard to verses of scripture can someone come up with this error in theology.

You despise biblical truth....because you refuse to interact with it. You are unwilling or unable to do so. So you constantly lash out against truth.

Let me see you biblically explain romans 5....instead every day you make accusations that you cannot back up,and bear false witness against the saints.