Ye must be born again !

[preacher4truth]

An assumption (no doubt Calvinistic) that you have made. It is no where mentioned in the text of John 3:1-13. Thus there is no need to bring it up.

I'm showing that it is a command. It's Biblical, not calvinistic. I'm no calvinist, by the way.

Acts 17:30. Repentance is part of the Gospel message, part of being born-again. Also in 2 Peter 1:1 and elsewhere.

All are commanded to repent, it's part of being born-again, part of the Gospel.

Mark 1 is also part of the OP. I believe John the Baptist preached repentance.

Mar 1:4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


- Peace

 

[DHK]

I'm showing that it is a command. It's Biblical, not calvinistic. I'm no calvinist, by the way.

Acts 17:30. Repentance is part of the Gospel message, part of being born-again. Also in 2 Peter 1:1 and elsewhere.

All are commanded to repent, it's part of being born-again, part of the Gospel.

Mark 1 is also part of the OP. I believe John the Baptist preached repentance.

Mar 1:4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


- Peace

This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (Joshua 1:8)

Meditating on the Word of God is a command also.
But that is not what we are speaking about.
The topic here is the new birth.

I don't want a fight with you.
Debate the topic. Exegete John 3:3-13. What does it mean to be born again, and back it up with Scripture. That is the purpose of this thread. If you want to discuss repentance start another thread. If you think repentance = new birth then provide Biblical evidence.

But DO NOT DERAIL THIS THREAD!!

 

[preacher4truth]

This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. (Joshua 1:8)

Meditating on the Word of God is a command also.
But that is not what we are speaking about.
The topic here is the new birth.

I don't want a fight with you.
Debate the topic. Exegete John 3:3-13. What does it mean to be born again, and back it up with Scripture. That is the purpose of this thread. If you want to discuss repentance start another thread. If you think repentance = new birth then provide Biblical evidence.

But DO NOT DERAIL THIS THREAD!!

I know what you are saying, although meditating doesn't belong here, as you point out.

But we see Jesus trying to get Nicodemus to change his mind, which is repentance, while telling him he must be born-again.

Was He not doing this? He was causing him to consider, he being a leader in Israel, yet erring in the Scriptures and obviously in the matter of salvation. He showed him he was both intellectually wrong (because he didn't know these things) and spiritually wrong (ye must be born again). See John 3:7,10.

Nicodemus didn't realize that it is by the Grace of God alone, we are saved, not by our religious practice, but from He alone, thus, his mind needed to be changed. Only Jesus could do this. He needed to understand attaining eternal life was dependant upon the mercy of God, not on Nicodemus' religious practice. Thus, he needed to repent.

Clearly Jesus, in all His message to Nicodemus was this objective of bringing him to a change of mind. What did Nicodemus trust in? What was he?

Jesus explored his heart, and showed him he must be born from where? Born from above. Not born or earning salvation by works. Not born by choosing, but born from Him alone. For him to accept this, there must be a change of mind, or, repentance. It is part of being born-again.

Perhaps Nicodemus did repent and believe later, as he came in John 19:39 at night, to provide for His burial, perhaps the Words of Christ granting him repentance unto eternal life, or, that he became born-again.

None of this is off topic. We don't need the word repentance mentioned to see this. It is a significant part of being born-again.

- Blessings

 

[DHK]

I know what you are saying, although meditating doesn't belong here, as you point out.

But we see Jesus trying to get Nicodemus to change his mind, which is repentance, while telling him he must be born-again.

Changing his mind? As in repentance? Chapter and verse please?

Was He not doing this? He was causing him to consider, he being a leader in Israel, yet erring in the Scriptures and obviously in the matter of salvation. He showed him he was both intellectually wrong (because he didn't know these things) and spiritually wrong (ye must be born again). See John 3:7,10.

That is not leading him to repentance. He was teaching him, as Nicodemus requested.

Nicodemus didn't realize that it is by the Grace of God alone, we are saved, not by our religious practice, but from He alone, thus, his mind needed to be changed. Only Jesus could do this. He needed to understand attaining eternal life was dependant upon the mercy of God, not on Nicodemus' religious practice. Thus, he needed to repent.

Repentance is not even spoken of in this passage. You are off topic.

Clearly Jesus, in all His message to Nicodemus was this objective of bringing him to a change of mind. What did Nicodemus trust in? What was he?

Change his mind from what? He came to Jesus already convinced that Christ was "come from God." He had already heard him and seen his works. He wanted to hear more.
Jesus told him more. The more that he heard was: "You must be born again."

Jesus explored his heart, and showed him he must be born from where? Born from above. Not born or earning salvation by works. Not born by choosing, but born from Him alone. For him to accept this, there must be a change of mind, or, repentance. It is part of being born-again.

Think what you will. But you have to demonstrate your opinion from the Scriptures.

Perhaps Nicodemus did repent and believe later, as he came in John 19:39 at night, to provide for His burial, perhaps the Words of Christ granting him repentance unto eternal life, or, that he became born-again.

If you don't know then you should find out.

None of this is off topic. We don't need the word repentance mentioned to see this. It is a significant part of being born-again.

You need to demonstrate that through Scripture, and you haven't. It seems that your main objective is to argue and get a thread shut down. Deal with Scripture. What does it mean to be born again?

 

[preacher4truth]

Changing his mind? As in repentance? Chapter and verse please?

That is not leading him to repentance. He was teaching him, as Nicodemus requested.

Repentance is not even spoken of in this passage. You are off topic.

Change his mind from what? He came to Jesus already convinced that Christ was "come from God." He had already heard him and seen his works. He wanted to hear more.
Jesus told him more. The more that he heard was: "You must be born again."

Think what you will. But you have to demonstrate your opinion from the Scriptures.

If you don't know then you should find out.

You need to demonstrate that through Scripture, and you haven't. It seems that your main objective is to argue and get a thread shut down. Deal with Scripture. What does it mean to be born again?

Believing that Jesus is come from God is not enough.

I've demonstrated what this passage illustrates, and that is, that Jesus was changing Nicodemus' mind about all the things of God he knew.

In changing his mind, He was leading him to repentance and to then know how he must gain eternal life. In all of this, Nicodemus needed to know his methods were wrong.

This is what I see in this passage about being born-again, that first there must be a change of mind.

Simply by telling Nicodemus he "must be born again" to gain eternal life was causing Nicodemus to reconsider everything, and to repent of all of he formerly believed in religiously.

He definitely changed the mind of Nicodemus, granting him, leading him to repentance. Nicodemus had it all wrong. Jesus changed his mind, I glory in that!

Also, to answer your question, what it is to be born again. It means the opposite of Nicodemus methodology (religion), and that it all must come through God, not religion or works. Yet another reason I say that Nicodemus needed to repent. He believed it was of works. The word repentance does not have to appear to show what is happening is repentance.


- Blessings

 

[DHK]

Believing that Jesus is come from God is not enough.

I've demonstrated what this passage illustrates, and that is, that Jesus was changing Nicodemus' mind about all the things of God he knew.

No, that is your opinion. You haven't quoted Scripture; only stated an opinion.

In changing his mind, He was leading him to repentance and to then know how he must gain eternal life. In all of this, Nicodemus needed to know his methods were wrong.

This is what I see in this passage about being born-again, that first there must be a change of mind.

Opinions don't change my mind. Where's the beef! the old lady said. You have no evidence to back up anything you say--no scripture.

Simply by telling Nicodemus he "must be born again" to gain eternal life was causing Nicodemus to reconsider everything, and to repent of all of he formerly believed in religiously.

The Bible does tell one how to be born again. To know that you must first exegete the passage instead of offering opinions.

He definitely changed the mind of Nicodemus, granting him, leading him to repentance. Nicodemus had it all wrong. Jesus changed his mind, I glory in that!

Where does the Bible say that. Now I have your opinion. Nice story. Back it up with Scripture.

 

[quantumfaith]

Seems to me the record of the exchange between Nicodemus and Jesus clearly indicates that we can in fact "seek" God. Nicodemus was no doubt interested in obtaining further information through his exchange with Jesus. After all, was not man (mankind) created and designed to have fellowship with the Creator?

 

[preacher4truth]

No, that is your opinion. You haven't quoted Scripture; only stated an opinion.

Opinions don't change my mind. Where's the beef! the old lady said. You have no evidence to back up anything you say--no scripture.

The Bible does tell one how to be born again. To know that you must first exegete the passage instead of offering opinions.

Where does the Bible say that. Now I have your opinion. Nice story. Back it up with Scripture.

So you're saying that believing that Jesus came from God is enough? I believe belief is not enough. James supports this.

If this were enough, since Nicodemus claimed he believed He came from God, why then did Jesus have to change his mind about his religion, and lead him to repent, and to believe that he must be born-again? Why didn't He just say "Then you are saved!?"

Simply for this: Believing is not enough.

I don't need to quote a verse, we already have our text.

Nicodemus needed to change his mind.

- Peace

 

[DHK]

So you're saying that believing that Jesus came from God is enough? I believe belief is not enough. James supports this.

I didn't say that in this thread, and neither did Jesus.

If this were enough, since Nicodemus claimed he believed He came from God, why then did Jesus have to change his mind about his religion, and lead him to repent, and to believe that he must be born-again? Why didn't He just say "Then you are saved!?"

Jesus did not say one word of repentance.

Simply for this: Believing is not enough.

Don't misrepresent me. I never said that, in this thread.

I don't need to quote a verse, we already have our text.

And by the sound of it, you don't have a clue what the text means. You haven't even tried to post one verse and give the meaning of it. Your typical avoidance of Scripture is revealing.

Nicodemus needed to change his mind.

Concerning what?
That Jesus was "come from God"?
That Jesus was "with God"?

 

[webdog]

Seems to me the record of the exchange between Nicodemus and Jesus clearly indicates that we can in fact "seek" God. Nicodemus was no doubt interested in obtaining further information through his exchange with Jesus. After all, was not man (mankind) created and designed to have fellowship with the Creator?

The interesting thing is Nick was not regenerated prior to that...yet desired to come to Christ. So much for being a corpse

 

[savedbymercy]

But it is a command that every man repent. Acts 17:30.

Sorry, at present this point is about Jesus statement " Ye must be born again" That is not a command .

 

[savedbymercy]

The indicative is an assertation of fact, what DHK stated. To see the kingdom you must be born again. What is your point?

It should be obvious, " Ye must be born again" is not an command. A command is when you are told what to do. Like for instance, When Peter says Repent in Acts 2:38 Or, When Paul says believe in Acts 16:31 .

Yes, " Ye must be born again" is a assertion of fact, but its not an imperative for the individual to do.

Being born is passive, one has to be given birth ! Now that is a statement of Fact !

 

[preacher4truth]

Sorry, at present this point is about Jesus statement " Ye must be born again" That is not a command .

I undertand what you are saying, no need to be sorry.

Jesus was leading Nicodemus to change his mind, from his false religion. Telling him he must be born again meant that he was doing it all wrong, that he better think about this, that he had better change his mind, that reliigion didn't save.

I agree with the other you have said, but, I am simply making the point that Jesus was working on his heart to bring him to repentance of his works based salvation to trust only in Jesus alone. I am not arguing that born-again is a command.

That's all.

 

[Chowmah]

Acts 17:30. Repentance is part of the Gospel message, part of being born-again. Also in 2 Peter 1:1 and elsewhere.

All are commanded to repent, it's part of being born-again, part of the Gospel.

Mark 1 is also part of the OP. I believe John the Baptist preached repentance.

Mar 1:4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


- Peace

Hello preacher for truth. What is it youre to repent of? Sin, right? Sin is the transgression of the law according to new covenant scripture. So your saying in order to be born again you must keep the law. I agree.

 

[Chowmah]

Uh, you'd better rethink this, Brother. If you wait until the last trumpet to be born again, you'll die lost. You need to be born again before the trump of God sounds.

Well then my friend, explain these 2 scriptures

1PETER1 [23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.

1COR.15 [42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:.....[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[preacher4truth]

Hello preacher for truth. What is it youre to repent of? Sin, right? Sin is the transgression of the law according to new covenant scripture. So your saying in order to be born again you must keep the law. I agree.

That's not what I'm saying bro. There is only salvation in one name, Jesus.

Nothing I do saves, and as a matter of fact, repentance is His gift by His leading.

I'd have to disagree with what you say. That's the fallacy with the "so you're saying" logic. That's what you're saying bro, not me.

- Blessings and Peace

 

[Chowmah]

Debate the topic. Exegete John 3:3-13. What does it mean to be born again, and back it up with Scripture. That is the purpose of this thread. If you want to discuss repentance start another thread. If you think repentance = new birth then provide Biblical evidence.

But DO NOT DERAIL THIS THREAD!!

Hes not derailing thread. To enter the kingdom you must be born again.

JOHN 3 [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of WATER and of the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

MATTHEW 3 [11] I indeed baptize you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:

Hes simply pointing out you must 1st repent of your sins

 

[Chowmah]

Didnt you post these scriptures

Originally Posted by preacher4truth

Acts 17:30. Repentance is part of the Gospel message, part of being born-again. Also in 2 Peter 1:1 and elsewhere.

All are commanded to repent, it's part of being born-again, part of the Gospel.

Mark 1 is also part of the OP. I believe John the Baptist preached repentance.

Mar 1:4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Im a bit confused i guess. What am i missing?

 

[Chowmah]

Well then my friend, explain these 2 scriptures

1PETER1 [23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.

1COR.15 [42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:.....[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Can anyone explain these 2 scriptures. Im just trying to get to the truth. Could the key word in 1Peter1 be seed? And the fully sprouted plant (1Cor.15 {42})

 

[Chowmah]

To me, it is impossible to be a Christian without being born again. Without that second (spiritual) birth, we are spiritually dead. If we are spiritually dead, then we cannot serve the living God in any way.

Does that perhaps make my earlier question a bit clearer?

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY.

It can get confusing. Is verse 44 explaining the 3rd spiritual birth