By the time Carey went to India, English speaking Baptists had already split between the Gillites and the Fullerites. Carey and Company were in the Fuller camp. And remember, there's more to Calvinism then the Canons of Dort.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Were the original Baptist missionaries Calvinist?
- Thread starter John of Japan
- Start date
But Luke's Point is well taken. Carey (and Fuller, for that matter), was still a five point Calvinist. All of Carey's associates were Five point Calvinists. Their foray into missions, which sparked pretty much the entirety of the modern missions movement, was itself based on the writings of a Calvinist, none other than Jonathan Edward's "Humble attempt to promote explicit agreement and visible union of God's people in extraordinary prayer for the revival of religion and the advancement of Christ's Kingdom on earth."
Looking at the original op, and John's statement regarding the connection of one's theology, and one's actions, or in this case, "missionary zeal," I think it becomes clear that a Calvinist view of God's Sovereignty is a boost to missions...
In line with the OP, can you give quotes from the writings of Carey on the 5 points? And I'd still like a quote from Judson on any one of the 5 points.
I was just reading some of the writings of Judson from The Life of Adoniram Judson by his son Edward from my precious 1883 copy. Calvinist or Arminian, the three missionaries we've been discussing all had (1) such a deep sacrificial love for Christ the Savior and (2) such a deep campassion and longing for the salvation of those people they had been sent to. Whether or not they believed in a limited atonement, these men tapped into the great love of our God for His people.
In my experience, one goes to the mission field because the Sovereign God, their Lord Jesus, calls them. If a person does not believe God is sovereign (however he defines that), he will not recognize the call. We go to where God has called us because we love Him. The love for the people comes after reaching the field, when we realize God loves them. As Paul wrote, "The love of Christ constraineth us...."
The life of Carey in particular should be studied deeply by all Calvinists. He is referred to so often by Calvinists as a missionary to be proud of--and that is a very good thing. But would that we all knew and imitated his love for the Savior and his willingness to give all for His cause in obedience to the Great Commission.
Of course, Carey was a Particular (Calvinist) Baptist. However, being on the Fuller side of the debate. he was willing to preach the Gospel to whoever would listen and not worry about if they were elect or not. The modern examples of the Gillite camp are the Primitive Baptists.
In the Life... by Judson's son, Appendix B is the first tract Judson wrote in Burmese. It is an excellent job of contextualization! But for our purposes the following quote is of interest: "Man, having sinned against God, and contracted great guilt, can not perform meritorious deeds..." (p. 569). Other than this statement of the depravity of man, there are no other statements in the tract that might be construed either way in the subject at hand.
Judging from Carey's famous pamphlet, "AN ENQUIRY INTO THE OBLIGATIONS OF CHRISTIANS, TO USE MEANS FOR THE CONVERSION OF THE HEATHENS," Carey considered himself to be not only a Calvinist, but part of a wider evangelicalism. (This pamphlet is available in a PDF in it's original format at: http://www.wmcarey.edu/carey/enquiry/anenquiry.pdf. No one can know Carey without reading this document.)
In it Carey speaks positively of various missionary efforts down through the centuries. He wrote about the Moravians on p. 37:
Again on p. 37, here is what he wrote about Wesley:
As is many times the case (though here it's not a matter of heresy), when using the same vocabulary, it pays to take attention to the dictionaries being used by the different parties.
To see another side of the Particular Baptist divide:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36882
Old Regular Baptist (Revised)
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36882
Old Regular Baptist (Revised)
Very true.
A little research has shown me that Adoniram Judson was ordained in the Congregational Church in Salem, where his pastor was Samuel Worcester, a Hopkinsian, and therefore held to a universal atonement. But I still don't have any direct quotes from Judson. Anyone want to take it from there?
Here is a quote from Judson that points to him being a Hopkinsonian and thus believing in an unlimited atonement. Whether it proves the point or not is up to you. I think it does, because Judson does not distinguish between "all...sinners" and sinners Christ died for.
The context is a discussion between Judson (J) and a Burmese named Oo Oungmen (Oo).
The context is a discussion between Judson (J) and a Burmese named Oo Oungmen (Oo).
Last edited by a moderator:
While I believe William Carey was a Calvinist, yet he apparently did not have the same concept of the will of God as do many (Most? Correct me if I'm wrong.) of the Calvinists on the BB, judging by the following statement by him:
"Sin was introduced amongst the children of men by the fall of Adam, and has ever since been spreading its baneful influence. By changing its appearances to suit the circumstances of the times, it has grown up in ten thousand forms, and constantly counteracted the will and designs of God" (An Enquiry into the Obligations of Christians to Use Means for the Conversion of the Heathen, pp. 3-4).
Carey talks about human choice on p. 13: "Our own countrymen have the means of grace, and may attend on the word preached if they chuse it."
"Sin was introduced amongst the children of men by the fall of Adam, and has ever since been spreading its baneful influence. By changing its appearances to suit the circumstances of the times, it has grown up in ten thousand forms, and constantly counteracted the will and designs of God" (An Enquiry into the Obligations of Christians to Use Means for the Conversion of the Heathen, pp. 3-4).
Carey talks about human choice on p. 13: "Our own countrymen have the means of grace, and may attend on the word preached if they chuse it."
Last edited by a moderator:
On p. 84 of his Enquiry..., Carey finally identifies himself as a particular Baptist:
"If there is any reason for me to hope that I shall have any influence upon any of my brethren, and fellow Christians, probably it may be more especially amongst them of my own denomination. I would therefore propose that such a society and committee should be formed amongst the particular baptist denomination."
He then acknowledges in the next paragraph that God can and will use other groups, non-Calvinists if you will, wishing for their participation in world missions with all of his heart:
"I do not mean by this, in any wise to confine it to one denomination of Christians. I wish with all my heart, that everyone who loves our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity, would in some way or other engage in it. But in the present divided state of Christendom, it would be more likely for good to be done by each denomination engaging separately in the work, than if they were to embark in it conjointly. There is room enough for us all, without interfering with each other; and if no unfriendly interference took place, each denomination would bear good will to the other, and wish, and pray for its success, considering it as upon the whole friendly to the great cause of true religion."
"If there is any reason for me to hope that I shall have any influence upon any of my brethren, and fellow Christians, probably it may be more especially amongst them of my own denomination. I would therefore propose that such a society and committee should be formed amongst the particular baptist denomination."
He then acknowledges in the next paragraph that God can and will use other groups, non-Calvinists if you will, wishing for their participation in world missions with all of his heart:
"I do not mean by this, in any wise to confine it to one denomination of Christians. I wish with all my heart, that everyone who loves our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity, would in some way or other engage in it. But in the present divided state of Christendom, it would be more likely for good to be done by each denomination engaging separately in the work, than if they were to embark in it conjointly. There is room enough for us all, without interfering with each other; and if no unfriendly interference took place, each denomination would bear good will to the other, and wish, and pray for its success, considering it as upon the whole friendly to the great cause of true religion."
Remember what i wrote above about different dictionaries.
You do not understand Calvinism nor the Calvinism of the Calvinists on bb if you think that contradicts ANYTHING that ANY of us believe.
This is the problem, imo, with most "non-cals". They really don't understand what they are debating against.
I am afraid they have been educated by people who are only able to paint caricatures of Calvinists because those educators find it too difficult to debate REAL Calvinism.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Have you read Carey's Enquiry... and Serampore Compact? What do you think of Carey's method of contextualization?
I gave my opinion and Luke gave his hyperbolic opinion. However, this is a fellowship thread and I'll not break the rules by turning it into a debate.The gauntlet just got thrown in your face John!
I've addressed this situation up thread. Though you and the early missionaries share the same vocabulary, are you sure you are sharing the same dictionary. In a nutshell. they had no problems proclaiming the Gospel to all who would listen elect and non-elect alike. They left the quickening to the work of the Holy Spirit. I'd like to add that Calvinism is more than the Five Points of the Canons of Dort.
Here is a quote from Adoniram Judson which indicates he probably held to a limited atonement. Speaking of the difficulties the new believers were facing he wrote on Feb. 12, 1820, about whether or not he should leave Rangoon:
"Perhaps the Lord Jesus has a few chosen ones, whom He intends to call in, under the most unpropitious and forbidding circumstances. Perhaps he intends to show that it is not by might nor by power, but by His Spirit. In a word, perhaps in the last extremity, God will help us. Ought we, then, hastily to forsake the place? Ought we to desert those of the disciples that we can not take with us, and some others, for whom perhaps Christ died, in such an interesting crisis of their fate?" (The Life..., p. 162).
"Perhaps the Lord Jesus has a few chosen ones, whom He intends to call in, under the most unpropitious and forbidding circumstances. Perhaps he intends to show that it is not by might nor by power, but by His Spirit. In a word, perhaps in the last extremity, God will help us. Ought we, then, hastily to forsake the place? Ought we to desert those of the disciples that we can not take with us, and some others, for whom perhaps Christ died, in such an interesting crisis of their fate?" (The Life..., p. 162).