“Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth

I doubt you have a clue what parables like the parable of the talents means. Calvinism cannot explain this.

Lk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

 

I did not ask you to "read it for me".

 

I don't think so, brother. You may be able, yet unwillingly. I am able to wake up at 4 am, but I am not willing to do that, so I set the alarm for 5am. If I am unwilling to wake up at 4 am it doesn't mean I am not able to do so.

When Romans 3:11 says none seek Him, it is not because they are unable, but because they are not willing.

 

I know what it means.....unlike the winman storytime version..in which you divorce it from the rest of scripture and make up your own story...of what you would like it to say.

 

Sorry, but your alarm clock has nothing to do with this. Romans 3 speaks about that none seek him. Other passages that deal with the corruptness of the heart show why. Man is unable on his own to come to Christ. Anything else has man with natural spiritual ability, which is completely false.

 

that was addressed at winman...he misreads the intent of the passage

 

OK. Take care.

 

Iconoclast

Calvinism is not always wrong. Sometimes its correct, just like the free will side. One area where it is correct is 100% eternal security.

But calvinism is monsterously wrong in some areas. Surely you dont believe Calvinism is completely correct about everything, do you? That would make Calvin just like God, and I know you dont believe that.

And in time I believe that myself, and others, will...with our due diligence...help those in error to finally start to "see the light"

 

aic

Calvinism is correct.......and it is correct because it is scriptural, and does not have much to do with Calvin at all.

The scriptures teach it....many others have seen it

hiding behind human names does not answer the questions,
many have believed the teaching before hearing or reading Calvin

 

The word of Iconoclast....

The word of God....

John 1: 6-9... There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world

Rev 7: 9-10....

There have been many many tribes and nations that grew...then died out completly, with the people having never heard of Jesus.

Yet these scriptures make clear that every tribe, every tongue, and every country that ever existed is represented in heaven.

Not SOME of them. ALL of them....

Its obvious that many of these people never heard of Jesus Christ or the gosple...yet...here they are... In heaven.

I am CERTAINLY not suggesting Universalism.

I am saying that many of these ones who never heard the Gosple in the normal way....DID hear it some other way.

If they didnt, what are they doing in heaven?

 

Iconoclast...

More scriptural support...

YOU say they are automadically damned because of unfortunate circumstanses out side of their control. (Darn the luck!)

GOD says...."Not so fast, my friend...not so fast!

God is a great and awesome God. He is a million times a better evangelist then we are. If there are people living and dying on some little island somewhere that WE have have never got to yet, God is surely been evangelizing those dear people. He is giving them the opportuity to make the right choice, just like those of us who have heard the gosple in the normal way.

 

Iconoclast...

I said....

And you said...

Sorry bout that. You obviously dont watch a lot of college football.

Just think of it as a way of saying "you are wrong"

 

Iconoclast...

I said...

And you said...

But in your view, God is totally impotent, and can not save them because the missionaries wont get there for another 700 years or so. Which means we are back to square 1...they are automadically damned to hell, by God, because of unfortunate circumstanses out side of their control. (Darn the luck)

I seriously can not concieve of our Lord having anything but contempt for the scenerios you are advocating.

Absolutely not.

If God knows that nobody will bring the gosple to these people for 700 years, then the scriptures I posted make a good case for God giving them enough spiritual enlightenment that they can make a heartfelt choice for Gods option, rather than choosing any of the other counterfiets that might be popular.in thier culture.

 

Hello Benjamin

Benjamin.....I take the conversation wherever it needs to go;

1] We are all sinners,having broken God's law in thought word and deed.

2] God is holy and has planned to punish all sin.....either in the sinner, or In His appointed substitute

3] Jesus came to save a multitude of sinners, by offering His sinless perfect life as a substitute for those sinners who believe in Him.

4] Anyone who understands they are guilty before a Holy God...needs to repent of all known sin,and seek God's mercy. As God has commanded all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

5] Jesus is the only way..the only thing the Father is well pleased with.

6] If someone repents and believes the gospel,I explain that God would have them join with a bible believing fellowship,that is the local church.

Benjamin.. if the person has some religious backround,or brings up certain questions that require me to speak about God's electing purposes I am not shy about that. It has happened many times....it goes something like this;

I might offer some of what i offered above...then the person starts to question...what about the heathen, or what if someone never hears about Jesus etc.

1] I explain God has an eternal purpose that He has made known to the church,and establish that the scriptures are true and trust worthy.

2] God's holy law is perfectly just...and must be perfectly kept

3] Man having fallen in Adam ...is not able to keep the law perfectly

4] God seeing all mankind as fallen In Adam...has purposed to save a multitude of sinners In Christ.

5] The Father gives this multitude to the Son before the world was made.

6] The Son comes into the world in the form of a servant,to live and die for these chosen and elected persons.

7] The Son has promised that each and everyone of these persons...at a point in time....will repent and believe the gospel not one will be lost

8] I ask the person if Jesus said all that are given will come to Him...have you came to Jesus savingly yet? If not why not. I do my best to leave them with no hope...outside of Jesus....

9] I quote Jesus words to those in jn8
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
and Hebrews 7;
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them

As I say...if the conversation goes this way...I will go this way.

Benjamin...this is a good question...
I never say it that way....

1] I do not know if he is elect or not

2] He does not know if he is elect or not

3] I make Clear that Jesus alone is the only Saviour of sinners

4] if election comes up.....I stress that it is certain to come to pass..I tell Him the truth...do not hide it under a bushel.
5] I stress that the issue he needs to concern himself with..is His sin against a Holy God that has to be paid for.....He is responsible to repent and believe the gospel command.

6] If he tries to mock and scoff like those in 2 pet3...I do mention that God has not planned to save everyone, and unless God allows a sinner to repent and believe,,,they will die in their sins.......

7] I do not give Him false hope, I do not give him no hope.....just point out that the only Hope is In Jesus...not remaining in Adam.

Benjamin....

I would have no trouble preaching the bible truth in front of you...as you cannot change it. God's truth stands. The Apostles had no problem whatsoever writing this truth to all the new churches...we should not have trouble with it.
Let me know if you would like clarification on this.

 

double post

 

Wow, that must be a fantastically encouraging thing to hear for someone that is struggling.

So, how do you know you are elect?

 

Winman
thanks for your concern. We are to be faithful to peoples souls, not be so concerned to encourage a sinner in His rebellion.
jeremiah saw that evil in his day;

winman...is this how you would handle a soul?

Anyone who savingly repents and believes the gospel is elect...even some reluctant arminians who do not realize it yet.
That is the point winman....everyone believing and continuing to believe is one of the elect.[whether on not they totally understand the doctrine]

 

This theory is completely bogus...and I believe you might be one of the few who would even come up with this strange notion:BangHead: