Tozer- Calvinism tends to be more stable than Arminianism

Theology is a real STUDY of God. It is not a commitment NOT to study a whole LOT about God.

:thumbs::thumbs: especially in a debate forum

 

Lets see:
1) Calvinism is not a systematic theology because it does not fit together, for on one hand it says God predestines everything, yet on the other says God does not predestine sin.

Was this point refuted or simply denied? denied.

2) My view, called CMT, is systematic and addresses all the doctrines Calvinism addresses. This was said to not be systematic because it does not address unnamed doctrines. Fiddlesticks.

3) The claim was repeated that Tozer was Arminian, because it was claimed Arminianism sometimes includes eternal security. But no published source was referenced, and so the claim appears to be fiction. One of the five doctrines is believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace. Since Tozer did not agree with this premise, he was not an Arminian by definition.

4) I was charged with "skirting" most of the primary issues of the faith, but they were not mentioned specifically. Thus just another generalized charge having no substance. This is all Calvinism has, deny their own doctrines and make general disparaging statements about those who hold other views.

Calvinism [edited] cannot be supported biblically. The bible says no one seeks God but leaves unsaid whether this means at any time or some of the time. Calvinists claim it means at any time yet verse after verse says otherwise, such as Romans 7, and so no one seeks God at all times but some do seek God some of the time is the correct understanding of the passage. The idea is we are all under sin and since we all sin, for no one seeks God all the time, we are condemned whether under the law or apart from the law.

 

um, unless it said, some of the time, it means all the time.

 

Let me get this straight.....who is insulting & arrogant again? :laugh:

 

You guys should listen to this sermon from Al Martin, Pastor @ Trinity Reformed Basptist Church in Montville

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=621111142170

Sadly, for me anyway, he retired 2 yrs ago after 40 yrs service to the church......New Jersey hasnt been the same since.

Titled : Sovereignty of God 16/17 Objections: Doesn't This Make Man a Puppet?; HyperCalvinism

 

unless it says all of the time, it means no one seeks God.

Now the context concerning who "no one" is needs its own thread.

 

Could be a good discussion. I'm watching the Braves play right now though.

 

just as long as you add in the caviat that since the results of the fall., NONE of us born really have a "free will" remaining, that we are constrained and limited by sinful human flesh and wills oppossed to God...

 

Men seek after God due to general revelation of nature, per Romans but NONE can get saved apart from a special revelation from God, Bible and Gospel, and TAHT only can be received when God enables one to be able to receive it!

 

Hi Jesusfan, I agree most Calvinists that post on this board would deny that God predestines all things, but Boettner presented that view as Calvinism. Why have you not posted "God does not predestine all things." Pretty clear statement, but it would be non Calvinistic. To claim I misunderstand Calvinist is simply to attack my qualifications, which as you know is supporting your position with a logical fallacy. Is that all you have?

So if someone agrees with one of the five doctrines of Arminianism, then they are Arminian, but if they agree with one of the five Tulip doctrines they are not a Calvinist. Strange set of rules you employ to support your view.

My view addresses Omniscience, and supports inherent omniscience, so that issue has not been skirted but fully supported scripturally. The Calvinist view has been shown to be unbiblical in that it denies God can remember no more forever.

The issue is not that men cannot be saved apart from the special revelation of the Bible, we both agree with that (we both agree the gospel is the power of God for salvation), but the issue is can men of flesh understand the milk of the gospel per 1 Corinthians 2:14-3:3. Calvinism denies this biblical truth.

In summary Tozer had a very sound view of doctrine, and while I think he missed the mark in some areas, he was correct to reject Calvinism.

 

Out of Curosity Van....did you get a chanse to listen to Al Martins sermon on post # 87?

 

Some good teachers NOT cal, so why the attack on cal so much?

 

Hi Jesusfan, there are in fact differences in what those defending Calvinism post, which reinforces the incoherent nature of Calvinism. I present published views which can be verified on line. Thus God predestines all things, including sin is actual Calvinism as presented by Boettner. You have yet to say "God does not predestine all things."

Tozer is not a Calvinist or Arminian if you use published definitions, which is what I said in the first place. Telling me that Baptists generally believer in eternal security, making them non-Arminian, and General Atonement, making them non-Calvinist does not make Tozer an Arminian.

What has been demonstrated is that many believers believe that God not remembering our sins simply means He remembers them but will not use them against us. But as I showed with about a dozen scriptural references, the Bible clearly indicates God puts the memory out of his mind, chucks it into the sea or behind him, so to speak. I accept the plain reading of the text because that does not create any conflict in all other scripture, just as Jesus being all knowing according to Peter, John 21, does not conflict with Jesus not knowing the time of His return. All knowing does not refer to everything imaginable, that takes the phrase out of context.

The systematic use of the minimal approach provides the best chance of correctly understanding scripture, and not adding to it, as Calvinism has done, in my opinion.

My original post did not attack Calvinism in this thread, see post #12

 

Hi Luke, your statement that only an Open Theist would believe this way or that way is simply an effort to misrepresent my view. I have posted on it extensively.

I am not a moderate Arminan, Arminianism is false doctrine, just as Calvinism is false doctrine. Both views hold some valid positions, but both completely miss the mark by adding to scripture a boat load of conjecture.

And while I am at it, did I say God forgets unintentially like I do? Nope. He can put knowledge out of His mind and remember it no more forever.

 

Think cannot allow to have God all knowing, as that seems to "jam up" his belief in the "total" free will of man!

 

Well let me see first of all Tozer wasn't either Calvinist or Arminian and what is funny is that you would believe what the papers say but you refuse to believe in the truth of scripture. Since Tozer is dead I guess he can't defend himself.
MB