Flesh vs Spirit

Waiting to see how many more stipulations and parameters you are going to require.

 

Both of our "camps" admit that the natural man must become the new man through the use of means. You believe those means to be IRRESISTIBLE and I don't. That is really the only difference yet you refuse to address that point and continue to dismiss it a "peripheral issue."

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

have to go a point before that though...

reason those who stongly hold to DoG being true is that due to the fall of ALL mankind in Adam, none of us in ourselves will have means to even freely respond to Jesus unless enabled so by God!

 

In a message a few days ago, Dr. Lutzer, in giving his testimony, recalled how God enabled him to believe to the saving of his soul at 14 years of age.

Note that God doesn't enable us to not believe, only to believe. All outside of Christ are already in a state of unbelief. Only a supernatural work of God can change hearts, Deuteronomy 29:4; 30:6; Acts 16:4 &c, and place us into the state of faith or "in the faith." This is contrary to the non-cal position of some mystical and mustered up "faith" within us that we "exercise" akin to sitting on a chair trusting it will support us. What an injustice this does to the work of God in giving and enabling with such an unbiblical illustration which the non-cals use.

 

False dichotomies cannot be answered truthfully.


1 Cor. 4:7 " For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?"

 

Faith is a response of human nature. When you lock your door is it your new man or old man that locks the door? When you turn your key in your ignition of your car is it your new man or your old man that turns your key. The mind controls the action. But the object of the action taken (faith) is that once you turn the key to your house is that your house will be safe; and once you turn the key in the ignition of your car the car will start. Both are examples of faith. You have faith that your car will start because: 1) experience--you have done it many times before and it hasn't failed you yet--someday it will. 2) The car manual promised you that the action you took will start the car. Thus you have put your faith in the word of the company that you bought your car from.

Spiritually you put your faith in the Christ, and his promises that if you receive him as your Savior he will keep that promise and do what he promised to do, forgive your sins, give you the gift of salvation, and make you one of his children. Now the object of your faith is not a car; it is Christ. Faith is innate. The object of our faith is what counts.

 

God would indeed be the Monster non cals accuse us of believing in though IF He offerred jesus to us freely, at same time knowing that in ourselves NONE can respond to that offer!

He enables us, than gives the gospel, and than we can freely receive jesus "by faith"

 

You have it backwards.
Only the word can enable a person. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. Once a person hears and understands the word of God, the message of the Bible, puts his faith and trust in Christ, the the Holy Spirit comes and resides within and enables him to understand spiritual things. Before that he is dead to spiritual things. God must enliven him through salvation that he may understand spiritual things. I never began to understand the Bible until after I was saved.

 

that faith cannot be produced by the Gospel though in any of us until/if the HS "gives us hears to hear" as we are deaf/dumb/blind by our fallen sinful state before a Holy god!

Clasic Arm against classic cal here methinks!

 

You treat "faith" as some esoteric, existential, mystical intangible that a person must lay hold of much like a Hindu must search for his nirvana. You can believe that superstition if you like, but you have no Scripture for it.

 

What i have biblical "proof" for though is that we are ALL in fall of Adam, that we cannot even respond to the Gospel being dead in ourselves, sinners who refuse to draw near God, and that MUST have both a work of the HS to wake us up to be ready and able to receive Gospel of Grace message...

faith is part of the entire salvation package that God bestows upon them that He has predestined to eternal life in jesus Christ!

 

Or can they? Maybe the Hindu nirvana fairy has to give them the faith to believe that?

 

So if I tell you, that wasn't my salvation experience are you going to call me unsaved? I heard the gospel. I believed. I was saved. It was that simple.

 

DHK, where is the work of the Holy Spirit!!! Don't you know you have to give credit to the Holy Spirit?!?!!

And don't tell me it was the gospel. The Holy Spirit only breathed that into existence, inspired authors to preach and write it, carried it through the Bride of Christ, preserved it over the ages and continues to inspire those He indwells to proclaim it all over the world. That surely can't be the enough of a work of the Holy Spirit to really count!!! :laugh:

 

Perhaps he was there, but I didn't FEEL Him.

 

He didn't blind you or have you get swallowed by a fish? Weird. :laugh:

 

No, I didn't even get to speak in tongues.