Flesh vs Spirit

No, belief is belief; faith is faith.
Only the object of the faith is different.
When a child believes, has trust, it is usually in their parents. That is the object of their faith is their parents.
The object of my faith is Christ. He promises to save me and forgive my sins when I believe in him. I believed and thus was saved. It was the same kind of belief that my children had in my, or that I had in my parents, etc. Faith is faith. The object of the faith is what is different. Only Christ can save. Faith is the means by which one is saved. We are saved by grace through faith.

 

Where do the scriptures say there is a natural faith and a spiritual faith? Where did you learn that?

Amazing, the devils are dead in sin, yet the scriptures say they believe in God, yet you say an unregenerate man cannot believe. Where do the scriptures say this?

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

OK I see it now.....the Moderator tag team! :smilewinkgrin:

 

Ohhhhhh, tears are flowing from my eyes....Thank heavens I wasnt drinkin coffee! ROFL :laugh: Nailed it:thumbs:

 

I have to agree with you here. Time and again I've stated that some on here believe faith is ones own natural ability to come to God, without needin g enabling, rejecting faith as a gift, that, man doesn't need enabled, that it is as simple as making a choice in our own power. Then I'm called out to "prove that persons say we have our own natural ability because we already have faith!!!!! No one here believes that!!!!!!" Yeah, sure. :thumbs:

This has been stated on here enough all one has to do is look around and see it.

Skan has gone through these stages, I think he is struggling and searching, and the pride factor that we all deal with, all of these play in together in this process. I recall Jonathan Edwards, others, struggling with these things. Some finally giving into the truth that they had long fought and struggled with.

Yep, you nailed it, EWF is correct in that.

 

I think you might want to include the word "irresistible" or "effectual" in there somewhere unless you feel the word "endowed" is strong enough to connote that meaning, otherwise it is no different from what we have claimed. But you wouldn't know that since you are too busy putting words I never said in my mouth.

As I clearly and painstakingly explained: There is no one here who believes that in the way you mean it, because you don't believe the Spirit's work in and through the Gospel counts as a real "work of the Holy Spirit."

That is man's natural condition, so I wonder what a possible solution for that might be? Could it be a Holy Spirit wrought message meant for God's enemies appealing for them to be reconciled? Naww, that would be too simple. Why would anyone think that a divine message of reconciliation might actually have the power to bring reconciliation?

Huh, that is not a "view," it is a CLARIFYING QUESTION ABOUT YOUR VIEW, which you avoided answering for obvious reasons. Let's look at why that might be, shall we?

1. If someone says that the ability to believe is "natural" (from birth) and another says that ability is "divine" (from God), the question is this: If the ability to believe is "good" then aren't both really "from God" since all good things come from God? The obvious answer is "YES," so the response is: So what difference does our answer matter?

2. The reason you don't like this is that you'd like to corner our view into a view by which we claim the natural man, on his own, does something good without anything given to him by God. That is your straw-man and you'll apparently do just about anything to paint us into that straw-man's suit. Nice try, but those with an IQ above 4 can see through it.

I never said that in regard to my view on this subject.

I never said that, ever.

I never used these words, but this is the closest you've ever gotten so far. It's not as if there aren't enough quotes from me for you to copy and paste, so may I suggest you let my words speak for themselves...you know like I did when I quoted all your phrases about faith being a state of being and not a choice, remember? No offense, but you stink at telling people what I believe.

Again, not my view, but a clarifying question about YOUR VIEW that you once again avoided answering. Revealing.

You got that one right, but how did you know since I never said that?

 

Of course I could say the same about you from my perspective, but that obviously accomplishes nothing in a discussion except to inflame. That seems to be your goal in most discussions. :tear:

Question beg much?

 

How do you know you weren't drinking coffee?
Before you took that first sip, did you have 100% faith that it was coffee?
Was it blind faith? Or was the object of your faith based on experience (you have done it so many times before).
Perhaps the object of your faith was based on the promise of another--the person who said they would get you a cup. I don't know because I wasn't there. Either way, before you took that first sip of coffee you had to exercise a measure of faith that it was indeed coffee. You believed, didn't you? Was your faith from God or from you? Did your tears affect your coffee any?

 

This is despite the fact that Jesus infers that even children have faith; and secondly, that nowhere in the Bible can you point to a single verse that backs up this silly idea that God gives faith to the unsaved. Prove this doctrine by Scripture or stop repeating this false rant.

 

Perhaps the child like faith He referred to is that of how we are in the new state of being born-again/ in theprocess of regeneration, not some faith akin to sitting on a chair, as you erroneously espouse? I'm not into, nor do I embrace easy-believism, nor do I accept your view here.

I've proven it to you as have several others with plenty of Scriptures, over and over, time and again. That would then leave your ideas as silly and a false rant.

 

Guess God never did really "open up" Lydia heart to be able to respond to Jesus in Acts 16:14, Eh?

JUST as Cornelius, BOTH "worshipped"God, as Romans 1 makes clear, they could respond to God general revelation, but both HAD to have God do Hos work of openning their hearts to His special revelation in Christ!

 

Where does it say God gave her faith. Chapter and verse please!

 

Never a single verse that God gives unbelievers faith--not one.
BTW, I don't believe easy-believism either. No need to throw rocks. It is an indication that you have lost the debate before you have even started.

 

We've given you plenty of Scriptures.

Who's throwing rocks? Did I say you believe in easy-believism? Re-read and comprehend. You must lose a huge percentage of debates according to your indication of what losing one is.

 

You have given what you think are verses that prop up your case but they don't. Most of them refer to believers not unbelievers. So I ask you again, show me one verse in the Bible that demonstrates that God gives faith to unbelievers.

Your above answer demonstrates that you cannot do it.
Your accusation is also false.

 

Nice try!
Point here is that JUST as with Cornelius, she worshipped Hebrew God, but HAD to have the Lord by His HS "wake her up" spiritually, that would allow her to hear and belive it...

What do you think would have happened IF God chose NOT to have "openned her" up to hearing the Gospel message?

 

You've been shown more than one verse on many occasions.

Perhaps muster up some faith and believe it? :love2: